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I've noticed a strong negative reaction from some people who have kids. There's a weird kind of expectation from some that because they don't have time to work

I've noticed a strong negative reaction from some people who have kids. There's a weird kind of expectation from some that because they don't have time to work on side projects (which is fair; kids suck up time like nothing else), that others who don't have kids and do have the time shouldn't be able to derive any kind of professional advantage over them from it.

forbiddenvoid 7y ago
There's more to it than that. It's not just about a professional advantage - it's about company cultures that are toxic toward people with families. This quote for example: 'I’ve asked David Wong, working in the cryptocurrency team at Facebook, what would be the best way to be noticed by Facebook? He answered: “Side Projects” and “Blog”.' To many people with kids, that reads: Facebook doesn't want to hire engineers with families, because the things they care about from folks are diametrically opposed, in many cases, to the time required with children. I absolutely think that if you have the time and flexibility you should use it. But there are (and should be) other ways to stand out to companies or to create value that don't involve side gigs outside of the normal work day.
- C1sc0cat 7y ago
  And does Facebooks employee handbook allow side projects ?
- crdoconnor 7y ago
  I feel like there's an element of wanting to have and eat ones cake here. Programming isn't so different to playing a music instrument - you become better through a lot of deliberate, sustained practice. like it or not, people who have the time and inclination can jump ahead of others in competence the same way a musician who practices 8 hours a day can. It's not particularly compatible with having kids, but it makes you a better musician. I'm all in favour of finding better ways to let programmers who don't have side projects stand out but I don't think that devaluing side projects is the way to do that.
tylermac1 7y ago
It's a by-product of feeling like they're missing out on something. Also, some narratives around software side projects pit them as something you have to be doing in order to be successful. That's not true at all, but if you're even slightly insecure about your skills could elicit negative reactions.
verinus 7y ago
But thb it's not only kids. If you have free time it would be better to exercise your body- your mind gets enough exercise at work already... concerning professional advantages: after spending more than two decades writing software I seriously doubt that a side project gets you professional advantages. Imho more important are soft skills that are not in the focus of most technically savvy people. Being able do communicate well and being a team player are at least as important in most cases- not everybody builds a new google... We tend to focus on technical aspects while most fail to see that this is not a purpose in itself (in most cases / companies) but the purpose is to generate business value.
- crdoconnor 7y ago
  >after spending more than two decades writing software I seriously doubt that a side project gets you professional advantages. >Imho more important are soft skills that are not in the focus of most technically savvy people. I find that this is mostly true outside of tech hubs, especially in non tech companies, but not necessarily in tech hubs. Hard technical skills are much more valued relative to soft skills in, say, Facebook than in, say, an insurance company or HMO based in Houston.

forbiddenvoid 7y ago

There's more to it than that. It's not just about a professional advantage - it's about company cultures that are toxic toward people with families. This quote for example: 'I’ve asked David Wong, working in the cryptocurrency team at Facebook, what would be the best way to be noticed by Facebook? He answered: “Side Projects” and “Blog”.' To many people with kids, that reads: Facebook doesn't want to hire engineers with families, because the things they care about from folks are diametrically opposed, in many cases, to the time required with children. I absolutely think that if you have the time and flexibility you should use it. But there are (and should be) other ways to stand out to companies or to create value that don't involve side gigs outside of the normal work day.

C1sc0cat 7y ago
And does Facebooks employee handbook allow side projects ?
crdoconnor 7y ago
I feel like there's an element of wanting to have and eat ones cake here. Programming isn't so different to playing a music instrument - you become better through a lot of deliberate, sustained practice. like it or not, people who have the time and inclination can jump ahead of others in competence the same way a musician who practices 8 hours a day can. It's not particularly compatible with having kids, but it makes you a better musician. I'm all in favour of finding better ways to let programmers who don't have side projects stand out but I don't think that devaluing side projects is the way to do that.

tylermac1 7y ago

It's a by-product of feeling like they're missing out on something. Also, some narratives around software side projects pit them as something you have to be doing in order to be successful. That's not true at all, but if you're even slightly insecure about your skills could elicit negative reactions.

verinus 7y ago

But thb it's not only kids. If you have free time it would be better to exercise your body- your mind gets enough exercise at work already... concerning professional advantages: after spending more than two decades writing software I seriously doubt that a side project gets you professional advantages. Imho more important are soft skills that are not in the focus of most technically savvy people. Being able do communicate well and being a team player are at least as important in most cases- not everybody builds a new google... We tend to focus on technical aspects while most fail to see that this is not a purpose in itself (in most cases / companies) but the purpose is to generate business value.

crdoconnor 7y ago
>after spending more than two decades writing software I seriously doubt that a side project gets you professional advantages. >Imho more important are soft skills that are not in the focus of most technically savvy people. I find that this is mostly true outside of tech hubs, especially in non tech companies, but not necessarily in tech hubs. Hard technical skills are much more valued relative to soft skills in, say, Facebook than in, say, an insurance company or HMO based in Houston.