6 ms·

No. Your free time should be about rest and recovery, not about grinding out even more code. Even if it looks bad on your CV

by nikanj 7y ago

Insanity 7y ago
Your free time should be about enjoyment. If you enjoy doing some code that is fine. If you enjoy playing on your PS4 or (hopefully) enjoy spending time with your kids, that is fine to. You're an adult, do what you want in your free time. Edit: softened the response a bit because I do agree with the parent that you also need some rest and relaxation. :P
- blub 7y ago
  Do what you want, but keep in mind that spending too much time coding can harm your back, eyes, wrists and so on. 8 hours per day is already pushing it.
  - phito 7y ago
    I don't get why everyone here seems to be assuming that a side project = coding...
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Because that is what head hunters and employers expect from their "passionate developer for...".
    - quickthrower2 7y ago
      In that case side project = what? Anything? Netflix binge?
  - Insanity 7y ago
    Yeah getting some sports during your free time seems to be a good idea. Will alleviate a lot of the physical issues!
outime 7y ago
Everybody is different and some people may prefer to spend their free time in fun side projects. Nothing wrong with that.
asdfman123 7y ago
But what could be more rejuvenating, not to mention fulfilling, than spending your free time working on your career and making more money? It's a win-win. Work, work, work until you die!
mattlondon 7y ago
I agree to this to a certain extent. This view that everyone must be passionate about programming is dangerous. What does "passion" mean - working an extra 4-8 hours every day on some random side-project to prove to a hypothetical future employer that you are "passionate"? I don't know if that is what "passionate" means, but I know that for junior people I have in my team that I will repeatedly bang home the need for work-life balance if I ever catch them sending emails or submitting code late into the evening. That said, if you enjoy spending all your work time coding and your spare time also coding, sure fine go ahead (and I think that probably all of us go through this from time to time). But I really don't think we should be encouraging that you should be trying to hustle a genuine revenue-generating side business as well as your normal 9 to 5. I fear that it is unhealthy to set these expectations that you need to be working two jobs simultaneously.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  I don’t think anything done to prove something to a hypothetical outsider is done out of passion. I do all kinds of random side things (fewer now that we have kids). None have a purpose to prove anything to a future employer (or anyone else beyond sometimes my family [demonstrating to my kids the value, or even mere possibility, of doing more than passively compnsuming, for example])
chrisseaton 7y ago
Why are some people so strongly opposed to others using their free time to better themselves and stretch their minds a bit? Many of humanities greatest scientific discoveries and works of art were 'side projects'. It's better than lounging around like a lemon doing nothing with your time.
- mattlondon 7y ago
  Do that if you want to, but I worry that people feel like they should be doing this because that is what "everyone else is doing" or that you need to because otherwise you wont get a job without revenue-generating side projects etc. We're setting expectations for and normalising something which is not normal IMHO. By all means do side projects if you want, but don't feel compelled.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    Yeah, this breeds insecurity among those who don't yet have a strong enough base to believe in themselves and their abilities, and even more FOMO isn't really something to be encouraged.
- tylermac1 7y ago
  The people that I see react most negatively to the suggestion of having a "side project" are those that either don't enjoy programming or don't have time to outside of work. That being said, I think the main point that most people fail to get across about "side projects" is that they don't have to be programming. I play music with a band in the area and would very much consider that to be a side project. It would be a much healthier exercise if we focused the narrative on doing anything you enjoy outside of work.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    Yeah I'm writing a local history book as one of my side projects. Maybe I should lie on the sofa like a slob instead, but it doesn't seem as healthy or fun to me.
  - 7y ago
british_india 7y ago
There will be plenty of time for rest when you're taking the dirt nap. Claim every hour of the day until then.
relativeadv 7y ago
A tangent: I also think that rest & recovery should be about just that. Too often I see articles extolling the importance of R&R to make you a better, refreshed, worker. I see popular books like Digital Minimalism urging us to get away from our phones and newsfeeds but it all amounts to some grand productivity hack. Disconnect, relax, refresh yourself so that you can hit the ground running on monday and outperform others. R&R can be almost anything, but don't make it look like work and certainly don't do it because you think it'll make you a better capitalist.
roland35 7y ago
I do sometimes worry about that, like when applying to jobs I am competing against other people who are out there doing side projects and contributing to open source. Hopefully employers don't place too much weight on those factors for my sake! I like to refer to my kids as my side projects! As they get older I would like to do things together which to me seems like the best option.
voidmain0001 7y ago
If a side project _is_ recommended or advisable, then perhaps it should be about diversification. If my main job is software development, then my side project should be import/export. Branching into different areas will provide the growth and understanding of self that the author speaks about. Plus diversification will help me when AI takes over my coding job and I'm left jobless.
boomlinde 7y ago
I agree with your point that free time should be about rest and recovery, but I think that programming can be a fulfilling and engaging recreational activity that aids in recovery. Maybe not for you, but definitely for myself. When I program at home, I don't "grind out even more code" in the sense that it's in any way a continuation of what I do at my day job, more than watching TV, reading or browsing the web would be. I work on totally different projects, unrelated to what I do at work, and I do it for myself under no pressure to perform. The playing field is very different.
baron_harkonnen 7y ago
I'm guessing the people complaining have never had side projects of their own. One of the huge benefits of side projects isn't to pad out your CV, but to decouple your career and your professional life from your employer. When work sucks family, friends and hobbies can be great at taking your mind off of your work problems, but they can't really free you from the fact that one company controls not only your income, but your entire professional identity. When you do work that is recognized outside of your office, you own that work and shitty managers can't take that away. Not everyone has to be start their own business, but I highly recommend that everyone "owns" something related to their livelihood outside of their 9-5. It means that friends, family and hobbies don't become merely a means of "recovery" from an oppressive job, but things that I can honestly enjoy more because I have an identity outside of my employer.
- player_zero 7y ago
  Agree with that. Having a few side projects really made me happier.
redisman 7y ago
40h of work. 10h side projects. 5h leetcode and interview prep. Ah, what a life!
kilo_bravo_3 7y ago
Competent lawyers, doctors, engineers, and teachers spend time improving and honing their craft through continuing professional development (CPD). Sometimes it is required by licensing and professional bodies for those occupations, other times it is optional. Sometimes it is compensated by employers and other times it is not. It can include: participating in conferences, meetings at informal local professional organizations, independent study through journals or other professional publications, coaching/mentorship, and personal time spent working on career-related research and development. I expect my doctor to spend at least some time during the week while not seeing patients and attending to administrative tasks browsing professional journals to stay abreast of the the state of the medical art. I don't understand why there is a reflexive revulsion to software developers having a github where they throw up stuff they've tried out. Unless software development is less of a professional occupation and more like wage-slave drudgery. Grocery store cashiers don't typically spend their down time reading the quarterly "Proceedings of the Supermarket Checkout Professional" to stay up-to-date on cash register developments. Civil engineers do typically read civil engineering journals in their spare time, at least all of the ones I know do. A few nights per week, for a little while, they'll sit in their recliner after dinner and page through a civil engineering magazine and occasionally jot things down in a notebook that interest them. I don't think programmers are exposed to a level of stress that requires more "rest and recovery" than a physician.

No. Your free time should be about rest and recovery, not about grinding out even more code. Even if it looks bad on your CV

by nikanj 7y ago

No. Your free time should be about rest and recovery, not about grinding out even more code. Even if it looks bad on your CV

Insanity 7y ago

Your free time should be about enjoyment. If you enjoy doing some code that is fine. If you enjoy playing on your PS4 or (hopefully) enjoy spending time with your kids, that is fine to. You're an adult, do what you want in your free time. Edit: softened the response a bit because I do agree with the parent that you also need some rest and relaxation. :P

blub 7y ago
Do what you want, but keep in mind that spending too much time coding can harm your back, eyes, wrists and so on. 8 hours per day is already pushing it.
- phito 7y ago
  I don't get why everyone here seems to be assuming that a side project = coding...
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Because that is what head hunters and employers expect from their "passionate developer for...".
  - quickthrower2 7y ago
    In that case side project = what? Anything? Netflix binge?
- Insanity 7y ago
  Yeah getting some sports during your free time seems to be a good idea. Will alleviate a lot of the physical issues!

outime 7y ago

Everybody is different and some people may prefer to spend their free time in fun side projects. Nothing wrong with that.

asdfman123 7y ago

But what could be more rejuvenating, not to mention fulfilling, than spending your free time working on your career and making more money? It's a win-win. Work, work, work until you die!

mattlondon 7y ago

I agree to this to a certain extent. This view that everyone must be passionate about programming is dangerous. What does "passion" mean - working an extra 4-8 hours every day on some random side-project to prove to a hypothetical future employer that you are "passionate"? I don't know if that is what "passionate" means, but I know that for junior people I have in my team that I will repeatedly bang home the need for work-life balance if I ever catch them sending emails or submitting code late into the evening. That said, if you enjoy spending all your work time coding and your spare time also coding, sure fine go ahead (and I think that probably all of us go through this from time to time). But I really don't think we should be encouraging that you should be trying to hustle a genuine revenue-generating side business as well as your normal 9 to 5. I fear that it is unhealthy to set these expectations that you need to be working two jobs simultaneously.

sokoloff 7y ago
I don’t think anything done to prove something to a hypothetical outsider is done out of passion. I do all kinds of random side things (fewer now that we have kids). None have a purpose to prove anything to a future employer (or anyone else beyond sometimes my family [demonstrating to my kids the value, or even mere possibility, of doing more than passively compnsuming, for example])

chrisseaton 7y ago

Why are some people so strongly opposed to others using their free time to better themselves and stretch their minds a bit? Many of humanities greatest scientific discoveries and works of art were 'side projects'. It's better than lounging around like a lemon doing nothing with your time.

mattlondon 7y ago
Do that if you want to, but I worry that people feel like they should be doing this because that is what "everyone else is doing" or that you need to because otherwise you wont get a job without revenue-generating side projects etc. We're setting expectations for and normalising something which is not normal IMHO. By all means do side projects if you want, but don't feel compelled.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  Yeah, this breeds insecurity among those who don't yet have a strong enough base to believe in themselves and their abilities, and even more FOMO isn't really something to be encouraged.
tylermac1 7y ago
The people that I see react most negatively to the suggestion of having a "side project" are those that either don't enjoy programming or don't have time to outside of work. That being said, I think the main point that most people fail to get across about "side projects" is that they don't have to be programming. I play music with a band in the area and would very much consider that to be a side project. It would be a much healthier exercise if we focused the narrative on doing anything you enjoy outside of work.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  Yeah I'm writing a local history book as one of my side projects. Maybe I should lie on the sofa like a slob instead, but it doesn't seem as healthy or fun to me.
- 7y ago

british_india 7y ago

There will be plenty of time for rest when you're taking the dirt nap. Claim every hour of the day until then.

relativeadv 7y ago

A tangent: I also think that rest & recovery should be about just that. Too often I see articles extolling the importance of R&R to make you a better, refreshed, worker. I see popular books like Digital Minimalism urging us to get away from our phones and newsfeeds but it all amounts to some grand productivity hack. Disconnect, relax, refresh yourself so that you can hit the ground running on monday and outperform others. R&R can be almost anything, but don't make it look like work and certainly don't do it because you think it'll make you a better capitalist.

roland35 7y ago

I do sometimes worry about that, like when applying to jobs I am competing against other people who are out there doing side projects and contributing to open source. Hopefully employers don't place too much weight on those factors for my sake! I like to refer to my kids as my side projects! As they get older I would like to do things together which to me seems like the best option.

voidmain0001 7y ago

If a side project _is_ recommended or advisable, then perhaps it should be about diversification. If my main job is software development, then my side project should be import/export. Branching into different areas will provide the growth and understanding of self that the author speaks about. Plus diversification will help me when AI takes over my coding job and I'm left jobless.

boomlinde 7y ago

I agree with your point that free time should be about rest and recovery, but I think that programming can be a fulfilling and engaging recreational activity that aids in recovery. Maybe not for you, but definitely for myself. When I program at home, I don't "grind out even more code" in the sense that it's in any way a continuation of what I do at my day job, more than watching TV, reading or browsing the web would be. I work on totally different projects, unrelated to what I do at work, and I do it for myself under no pressure to perform. The playing field is very different.

baron_harkonnen 7y ago

I'm guessing the people complaining have never had side projects of their own. One of the huge benefits of side projects isn't to pad out your CV, but to decouple your career and your professional life from your employer. When work sucks family, friends and hobbies can be great at taking your mind off of your work problems, but they can't really free you from the fact that one company controls not only your income, but your entire professional identity. When you do work that is recognized outside of your office, you own that work and shitty managers can't take that away. Not everyone has to be start their own business, but I highly recommend that everyone "owns" something related to their livelihood outside of their 9-5. It means that friends, family and hobbies don't become merely a means of "recovery" from an oppressive job, but things that I can honestly enjoy more because I have an identity outside of my employer.

player_zero 7y ago
Agree with that. Having a few side projects really made me happier.

redisman 7y ago

40h of work. 10h side projects. 5h leetcode and interview prep. Ah, what a life!

kilo_bravo_3 7y ago

Competent lawyers, doctors, engineers, and teachers spend time improving and honing their craft through continuing professional development (CPD). Sometimes it is required by licensing and professional bodies for those occupations, other times it is optional. Sometimes it is compensated by employers and other times it is not. It can include: participating in conferences, meetings at informal local professional organizations, independent study through journals or other professional publications, coaching/mentorship, and personal time spent working on career-related research and development. I expect my doctor to spend at least some time during the week while not seeing patients and attending to administrative tasks browsing professional journals to stay abreast of the the state of the medical art. I don't understand why there is a reflexive revulsion to software developers having a github where they throw up stuff they've tried out. Unless software development is less of a professional occupation and more like wage-slave drudgery. Grocery store cashiers don't typically spend their down time reading the quarterly "Proceedings of the Supermarket Checkout Professional" to stay up-to-date on cash register developments. Civil engineers do typically read civil engineering journals in their spare time, at least all of the ones I know do. A few nights per week, for a little while, they'll sit in their recliner after dinner and page through a civil engineering magazine and occasionally jot things down in a notebook that interest them. I don't think programmers are exposed to a level of stress that requires more "rest and recovery" than a physician.