5 ms·

It would probably be more fair to attribute the Nobel prize "nationality" to the university/country at which the scientist was working at the time they made the

by adwf 7y ago

It would probably be more fair to attribute the Nobel prize "nationality" to the university/country at which the scientist was working at the time they made their discovery.

paxys 7y ago
You can say the same for the Olympics as well. Ultimately there's no single "fair" system, just different labels, and country that issued your passport is what most people/organizations choose to go with.
chrisseaton 7y ago
Why does anyone care about someone's nationality when they win a Nobel prize?
- diffeomorphism 7y ago
  You don't care about their nationality, you care about what country you can associate them with. You then want to use it a measuring stick for that country's university and research system. It is of course not a perfect scale, but you take what you can get. For instance, this prize tells you that Switzerland, the UK and the US (or more specifically Geneva, Cambridge and Princeton) seem to be doing something right and that it might be a good idea to change your university system a little in their direction.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    > You then want to use it a measuring stick for that country's university and research system. But why?
    - diffeomorphism 7y ago
      That is my second paragraph.
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
        Most academics will have studied and worked in many countries by the time they achieve something major. Nobody's the product of a single country like that. These people have been educated and worked in Canada, the US, the UK, Switzerland...
        diffeomorphism 7y ago
        Sure, but then you would want to read about "Canada, the US, the UK, Switzerland..." and would be asking why these countries and not for example Belgium or Japan. Any way you attribute this has some problems, as does trying to condense it to one country. Still just because something is not perfect does not mean it is not useful. For example, France and Germany have very different systems and culture and you see that reflected in Nobel prizes and Fields medals. At that point you can then discuss which differences are "good" or "bad" by which metric.
- torgard 7y ago
  People are often patriotic. You feel a certain connection to someone who comes from your country. But yeah, I agree. One fun example: I am Faroese. On a technicality, Faroe Islands _could_ be considered the highest rank, at 1 laureate for a population of 49,489[1]. Niels Finsen was born in the Faroe Islands to Icelandic and Danish parents. His higher education and scientific studies were conducted in Denmark. So an ethnically Icelandic-Dane, Faroese-born, who studied in Denmark. Does this count as a Faroese Nobel Laureate? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_laureates_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_lau...
  - marton78 7y ago
    Wait. I thought it's wrong to say "Faroe Islands", because the "oe" already means "Island". So how is this?
    - torgard 7y ago
      Wow, yeah that's true! I have never thought about it before. From Wikipedia: "In Faroese, the name appears as Føroyar. Oyar represents the plural of oy, older Faroese for "island". Due to sound changes, the modern Faroese word for island is oyggj. The first element, før, may reflect an Old Norse word fær (sheep), although this analysis is sometimes disputed because Faroese now uses the word seyður (from Old Norse sauðr) to mean "sheep". Another possibility is that the Irish monks, who settled the island around 625, had already given the islands a name related to the Gaelic word fearrann, meaning "land" or "estate". This name could then have been passed on to the Norwegian settlers, who then added oyar (islands).[12] The name thus translates as either "Islands of Sheep" or "Islands of Fearrann". In Danish, the name Færøerne contains the same elements, though øerne is the definite plural of ø (island). In English, it may be seen as redundant to say the Faroe Islands, since the oe comes from an element meaning "island". Most notably in the BBC Shipping Forecast, where the waters around the islands are called Faeroes. The name is also sometimes spelled "Faeroe"."[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faroe_Islands#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faroe_Islands#Etymology
- vincnetas 7y ago
  usual human nature? german won nobel prize -> germans are smart -> im german -> i must be smart
  - vixen99 7y ago
    Surely no one's that dumb!
    - marton78 7y ago
      You should meet my father. Hungarian patriot. Our many Nobel prizes make him so proud! With the only minor stain to the story that most of them were Jews.
diffeomorphism 7y ago
Or the one where they went to school or the one where they did their undergrad or the one where they got their PhD or what if they worked for 5 years of the project in country A and then finished the last year in country B? No attribution is perfect, but they might still be useful.

by adwf 7y ago

It would probably be more fair to attribute the Nobel prize "nationality" to the university/country at which the scientist was working at the time they made their discovery.

paxys 7y ago

You can say the same for the Olympics as well. Ultimately there's no single "fair" system, just different labels, and country that issued your passport is what most people/organizations choose to go with.

chrisseaton 7y ago

Why does anyone care about someone's nationality when they win a Nobel prize?

diffeomorphism 7y ago
You don't care about their nationality, you care about what country you can associate them with. You then want to use it a measuring stick for that country's university and research system. It is of course not a perfect scale, but you take what you can get. For instance, this prize tells you that Switzerland, the UK and the US (or more specifically Geneva, Cambridge and Princeton) seem to be doing something right and that it might be a good idea to change your university system a little in their direction.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > You then want to use it a measuring stick for that country's university and research system. But why?
  - diffeomorphism 7y ago
    That is my second paragraph.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      Most academics will have studied and worked in many countries by the time they achieve something major. Nobody's the product of a single country like that. These people have been educated and worked in Canada, the US, the UK, Switzerland...
      - diffeomorphism 7y ago
        Sure, but then you would want to read about "Canada, the US, the UK, Switzerland..." and would be asking why these countries and not for example Belgium or Japan. Any way you attribute this has some problems, as does trying to condense it to one country. Still just because something is not perfect does not mean it is not useful. For example, France and Germany have very different systems and culture and you see that reflected in Nobel prizes and Fields medals. At that point you can then discuss which differences are "good" or "bad" by which metric.
torgard 7y ago
People are often patriotic. You feel a certain connection to someone who comes from your country. But yeah, I agree. One fun example: I am Faroese. On a technicality, Faroe Islands _could_ be considered the highest rank, at 1 laureate for a population of 49,489[1]. Niels Finsen was born in the Faroe Islands to Icelandic and Danish parents. His higher education and scientific studies were conducted in Denmark. So an ethnically Icelandic-Dane, Faroese-born, who studied in Denmark. Does this count as a Faroese Nobel Laureate? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_laureates_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_lau...
- marton78 7y ago
  Wait. I thought it's wrong to say "Faroe Islands", because the "oe" already means "Island". So how is this?
  - torgard 7y ago
    Wow, yeah that's true! I have never thought about it before. From Wikipedia: "In Faroese, the name appears as Føroyar. Oyar represents the plural of oy, older Faroese for "island". Due to sound changes, the modern Faroese word for island is oyggj. The first element, før, may reflect an Old Norse word fær (sheep), although this analysis is sometimes disputed because Faroese now uses the word seyður (from Old Norse sauðr) to mean "sheep". Another possibility is that the Irish monks, who settled the island around 625, had already given the islands a name related to the Gaelic word fearrann, meaning "land" or "estate". This name could then have been passed on to the Norwegian settlers, who then added oyar (islands).[12] The name thus translates as either "Islands of Sheep" or "Islands of Fearrann". In Danish, the name Færøerne contains the same elements, though øerne is the definite plural of ø (island). In English, it may be seen as redundant to say the Faroe Islands, since the oe comes from an element meaning "island". Most notably in the BBC Shipping Forecast, where the waters around the islands are called Faeroes. The name is also sometimes spelled "Faeroe"."[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faroe_Islands#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faroe_Islands#Etymology
vincnetas 7y ago
usual human nature? german won nobel prize -> germans are smart -> im german -> i must be smart
- vixen99 7y ago
  Surely no one's that dumb!
  - marton78 7y ago
    You should meet my father. Hungarian patriot. Our many Nobel prizes make him so proud! With the only minor stain to the story that most of them were Jews.

diffeomorphism 7y ago

Or the one where they went to school or the one where they did their undergrad or the one where they got their PhD or what if they worked for 5 years of the project in country A and then finished the last year in country B? No attribution is perfect, but they might still be useful.