8 ms·

At least they are not the same warmongerers as the USA. Their tactics to use the legit ways of business to gain more power is really smart compared to many west

by VvR-Ox 7y ago

At least they are not the same warmongerers as the USA. Their tactics to use the legit ways of business to gain more power is really smart compared to many western countries who just invade others with brute force, military and bombs. China is a f*ed up country concerning human rights etc. but in the end we could really use a mix of the best ideas from both worlds. I'm afraid the world will go on like it does because globalization forces us to work together. Either one will gain absolute power or we'll have this situation going on like forever probably. P.S.: We have our own share of censorship etc. but we have the tendency to ignore that and point our fingers at countries like China for being "much worse".

rm_-rf_slash 7y ago
>At least they are not the same warmongerers as the USA Yes, it is so much better that they conduct their business of organ harvesting domestic prisoners and putting Muslims into concentration camps in their own (conquered) territories instead of doing it in places that fly different flags. Think of how horrible that would be if that were the case! Edit: 你好，无毛党！
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  That's a lame argument. US could be considered more evil than China (I agree with you), but both are evil when looking at specific aspects of their behavior. Argumenting that they (brutally) repress their own citizens does somehow absolve US from war crimes done on foreign soil is simply not valid.
  - rm_-rf_slash 7y ago
    I think this is where MLK’s “injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere” comes into play. There is no better or worse. There is only right and wrong. And there is plenty of wrong in plenty of places. Lots of right too, but right in any quantity does not negate the wrong. Or to put it another way, I think that representative democracy is the least worst form of government, and plenty of Chinese may think that the CCP’s autocracy is better. The fact that both forms of government have been responsible for human rights abuses (to use a rhetorical big tent the size of Greenland) neither is justified by their system of government nor does it render either system as fundamentally wrong. A lot of Chinese who would have otherwise etched out a life of hopeless extreme poverty have all the reason in the world to side with the CCP.
  - yters 7y ago
    I don't believe he is absolving the US. He is pointing out there is a false claim of moral superiority for the Chinese. For example, could you have the equivalent debate in China?
- matvore 7y ago
  s/无/五/ You spelled it in pinyin right, but your IME chose the wrong character. That may be deliberate censorship by the conversion dictionary compilers.
- ozzyman700 7y ago
  none of that is true, and I hope you can find a source for any of those things. Organ harvesting of uyghur prisoners is completely unfounded and is a lie spread on the internet.
  - sabujp 7y ago
    yeah and none of them are political prisoners either
  - rubinelli 7y ago
    Apparently the news that a million Muslims are kept in concentration camps [1] and that Falun Gong members and other political prisoners had their organs harvested for transplant [2] were being conflated. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/million-muslims-are-held-detention-camps-china-now-portrays-humane-n922041?icid=related https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/million-muslims-are-held-... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests...
    - ozzyman700 7y ago
      ETAC is wildly biased and has lied in the past about organ harvesting with other prisoners in china. I have no reason to believe it is true this time. I do believe the US is working hard to manufacture consent that China must be destroyed as it is a threat to the continued US hegemony.
resters 7y ago
Exactly right. China is overall far less destructive to the world and to human rights than the US is. Keep in mind that Trump has started this anti-China drumbeat as a way of asserting the moral superiority of his administration.
- throw51319 7y ago
  China pollutes more than the US. Also anybody can see that they are gearing up for a conflict to obtain hegemony. They are the ones posturing for inevitable conflict... just so they can gain more power over the world. Look at countries that fell into the US sphere of influence... Europe, South Korea. Things aren't to bad in those places huh?
  - easymodex 7y ago
    >Look at countries that fell into the US sphere of influence... Europe, South Korea. Things aren't to bad in those places huh? Here in Europe we are very thankful, if it wasn't for America we would still be a third world country living in tents. Thanks for democracy, freedom, art, philosophy, medicine and so on. I only wish Europe had any of the smart minds that you have, maybe we could come up with them. Oh wait...
    - DuskStar 7y ago
      I'm pretty sure that without the US, the 20th century would have seen Europe united under either Nazi Germany or the USSR...
      - resters 7y ago
        True, and as upsetting as it is for Americans to hear this, chances are Europe would be at least as pluralistic and free as it is today had either of those happened.
        DuskStar 7y ago
        In the counterfactual where the Soviets conquered Europe, I could easily see the USSR surviving to today... No liberal democracies on their borders to compare with, no need for a huge military on the western border, and increased resources would go a long way.
jmull 7y ago
It's a very poor argument to dismiss or dilute criticism of China because the US also warrants criticism.

by VvR-Ox 7y ago

rm_-rf_slash 7y ago

>At least they are not the same warmongerers as the USA Yes, it is so much better that they conduct their business of organ harvesting domestic prisoners and putting Muslims into concentration camps in their own (conquered) territories instead of doing it in places that fly different flags. Think of how horrible that would be if that were the case! Edit: 你好，无毛党！

saiya-jin 7y ago
That's a lame argument. US could be considered more evil than China (I agree with you), but both are evil when looking at specific aspects of their behavior. Argumenting that they (brutally) repress their own citizens does somehow absolve US from war crimes done on foreign soil is simply not valid.
- rm_-rf_slash 7y ago
  I think this is where MLK’s “injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere” comes into play. There is no better or worse. There is only right and wrong. And there is plenty of wrong in plenty of places. Lots of right too, but right in any quantity does not negate the wrong. Or to put it another way, I think that representative democracy is the least worst form of government, and plenty of Chinese may think that the CCP’s autocracy is better. The fact that both forms of government have been responsible for human rights abuses (to use a rhetorical big tent the size of Greenland) neither is justified by their system of government nor does it render either system as fundamentally wrong. A lot of Chinese who would have otherwise etched out a life of hopeless extreme poverty have all the reason in the world to side with the CCP.
- yters 7y ago
  I don't believe he is absolving the US. He is pointing out there is a false claim of moral superiority for the Chinese. For example, could you have the equivalent debate in China?
matvore 7y ago
s/无/五/ You spelled it in pinyin right, but your IME chose the wrong character. That may be deliberate censorship by the conversion dictionary compilers.
ozzyman700 7y ago
none of that is true, and I hope you can find a source for any of those things. Organ harvesting of uyghur prisoners is completely unfounded and is a lie spread on the internet.
- sabujp 7y ago
  yeah and none of them are political prisoners either
- rubinelli 7y ago
  Apparently the news that a million Muslims are kept in concentration camps [1] and that Falun Gong members and other political prisoners had their organs harvested for transplant [2] were being conflated. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/million-muslims-are-held-detention-camps-china-now-portrays-humane-n922041?icid=related https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/million-muslims-are-held-... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests...
  - ozzyman700 7y ago
    ETAC is wildly biased and has lied in the past about organ harvesting with other prisoners in china. I have no reason to believe it is true this time. I do believe the US is working hard to manufacture consent that China must be destroyed as it is a threat to the continued US hegemony.

resters 7y ago

Exactly right. China is overall far less destructive to the world and to human rights than the US is. Keep in mind that Trump has started this anti-China drumbeat as a way of asserting the moral superiority of his administration.

throw51319 7y ago
China pollutes more than the US. Also anybody can see that they are gearing up for a conflict to obtain hegemony. They are the ones posturing for inevitable conflict... just so they can gain more power over the world. Look at countries that fell into the US sphere of influence... Europe, South Korea. Things aren't to bad in those places huh?
- easymodex 7y ago
  >Look at countries that fell into the US sphere of influence... Europe, South Korea. Things aren't to bad in those places huh? Here in Europe we are very thankful, if it wasn't for America we would still be a third world country living in tents. Thanks for democracy, freedom, art, philosophy, medicine and so on. I only wish Europe had any of the smart minds that you have, maybe we could come up with them. Oh wait...
  - DuskStar 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure that without the US, the 20th century would have seen Europe united under either Nazi Germany or the USSR...
    - resters 7y ago
      True, and as upsetting as it is for Americans to hear this, chances are Europe would be at least as pluralistic and free as it is today had either of those happened.
      - DuskStar 7y ago
        In the counterfactual where the Soviets conquered Europe, I could easily see the USSR surviving to today... No liberal democracies on their borders to compare with, no need for a huge military on the western border, and increased resources would go a long way.

jmull 7y ago

It's a very poor argument to dismiss or dilute criticism of China because the US also warrants criticism.