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Make them choose between the two markets. I'm tired of the idea that the Western and Chinese markets can both be appeased the middle of the road morality. Wha
by diveanon 7y ago
Make them choose between the two markets.
I'm tired of the idea that the Western and Chinese markets can both be appeased the middle of the road morality.
What is happening in HK right now is wrong, and the west has fought wars over this very issue.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago> and the west has fought wars over this very issue Which ones? Also, China has nukes, we probably don't want to see that war starting. I don't think there's a good military option available.
- atroche 7y agoDo they have the capacity to hit targets in the continental US without winning naval supremacy?
- TeMPOraL 7y agoI don't think the navy can do anything about ICBMs, but even if, they can start by nuking the US navy.
- arethuza 7y agoThe US Navy does appear to have an ABM capability on some of its ships: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Ballistic_Missile_Defense_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Ballistic_Missile_Defens...
- TeMPOraL 7y agoGood to know. Now the question is, can the newest AEGIS deal with China's newest hypersonic ICBMs. It's a question I very much don't want to see answered through actual test.
- vonmoltke 7y agoAs noted in that article, the system is ineffective (officially, at least) against ICBMs. It only works against ballistic missiles that don't leave the atmosphere.
- merpnderp 7y agoThey can't nuke the subs, who's primary purpose is to ensure retaliation, which hopefully the fear of keeps countries from launching nukes.
- nabla9 7y agoYes.
- amdavidson 7y agoYes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DF-41 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DF-41
- atroche 7y agoI probably should’ve done a quick search instead of asking: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-parades-its-latest-missiles-in-challenge-to-us-others/2019/10/01/1c2bb172-e424-11e9-b0a6-3d03721b85ef_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-para...
- baq 7y agoThey can launch people into orbit and safely bring them back. Hitting a ground target with an ICBM is about the same difficulty.
- mc32 7y agoThey aren’t saying we should start a war. They are saying we’ve gone to war to defend those principles but now we put up much less resistance, such as denouncements, sanctions, etc., lots of things short of war that we’ve done with the USSR and Russia.
- TeMPOraL 7y agoI read them as implying it, though even if they aren't, in previous HK threads I've seen comments that were, as if open war between two ICBM-equipped nations was something that wouldn't have disastrous consequences for every single one of us. I also would love to know which wars we (the US, or the Western world) have gone to over those principles (versus e.g. "over oil"), because I can't think of any.
- mc32 7y agoWe’re not (at least I’m not) saying go to war. I’m saying take the same actions we do against Russia and Venezuela for example.
- luckylion 7y agoFor very different reasons. Venezuela is "communists in our backyard" and Russia isn't about human rights, but about global hegemony, human rights is just the big argument. If there was an actual point in "it's about human rights", the US would come down on Turkey like an anvil on a cartoon character in old animated movies. Instead, the US appears to support Turkey's new expansive invasion of Syria that goes hand in hand with their genocidal desires to annihilate the Kurds. It's never about human rights on the international stage, it's about power.
- mc32 7y agoIts true human rights is rarely the true or stated reason, and it needn’t be here either. It could be about hegemony and influence. the NBA and Hollywood having to cater and cave in to official Chinese positions. I think it’d be different than say hoi polloi (public opinion) in China dictating what Hollywood does. One is freedom of speech and opinion the other is government coercion and control.
- hyperdunc 7y agoIt's the authoritarian Chinese government insisting on censorship. Not so much the Chinese market.
- ianleeclark 7y agoFurthermore, the western market is more than happy to comply with the censorship.
- ameen 7y agoChinese propaganda is well-spread. I had a Chinese roommate, well educated to boot - PhD in Econ from Columbia, and I could feel the reverence he had for Mao even though his ancestors were landlords.
- hyperdunc 7y agoI've traveled throughout eastern China and I've encountered this indoctrination many times when talking to otherwise reasonable people. But despite the widespread nationalist zealotry, most ordinary folk still seem to enjoy bootlegging Western media choc full of Western morality. They're not trying to ban it. Though of course China does have its very own PC police that are encouraged by the government.
- lucian1900 7y agoHe realises that being a landlord is immoral. Nothing wrong with that. Read Mao's "On Contradiction".
- yters 7y agoSimilar experience. He said Mao had to make hard choices as a leader to propel his country forward. I asked him why India didn't have to starve millions to do the same thing.
- whoevercares 7y agoAfter 1949, Mao barely did anything right and I’m surprised if any Chinese born after 90s would still defend him. But I doubt India is such a great example, we probably all have seen photos of the Gange
- nabla9 7y agoCultural movement would require people who are not themselves in the middle ground in the road to morality. It's hard to imagine people stopping using Uber, Lyft, Twitter, Snapchat, Fox News just because Saudis are heavily invested.
- ameen 7y agoSaudis barely have any influence, if anything - the opposite is true, any hint of editorial intervention by any middle eastern/african nation and the west is up in arms about journalistic integrity but chinese have been exerting their power for quite sometime. It's interesting to watch this unfold for someone who isn't entrenched in any of these spheres.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]