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Going off the Wikipedia plot summary of the episode, it looks like it makes fun of (a) Chinese-American people (not the Chinese government); and (b) paranoid fa

Going off the Wikipedia plot summary of the episode, it looks like it makes fun of (a) Chinese-American people (not the Chinese government); and (b) paranoid fantasies of Westerners about China invading the U.S.; and ultimately "Cartman decides he'd rather be Chinese than "a nation of unethical dick shooters"". My model of the Chinese government at the moment is that they primarily care about opposition/disrespect/criticism of the Chinese government. Does anyone have data points as to whether they care about, say, present-day racist insults of (a) Chinese-Americans; (b) Chinese living in China? Might be interesting to see where the lines are drawn.

chrisweekly 7y ago
Without touching on the ethical / moral aspect of stereotyping or disrespecting large groups of people, I'm curious if "racist" is the right adjective here, vs some other term that relates more to nationality vs biological ethnicity?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- waterhouse 7y ago
  I think it is the right adjective for what I have in mind. Scenarios I was looking to compare include "Celebrity uses race-based insults (e.g. slurs, references to stereotypical physical attributes) against a Chinese-American, or a group of them", vs "Celebrity uses race-based insults against a Chinese person living in China, or a group of them", vs "Celebrity condemns X action by the Chinese government". Ideally, one could find incidents of each type with similarly high-profile celebrities at similarly high-profile events, and then compare the responses.
- SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
  The way South Park employs xenophobic/racist/sexist tropes is interesting - they are either so silly that its really hard for anyone to take offense, or they spread it around so much - no one group is ever singled out - and no one group is ever spared. That gives us all permission to laugh at them, and laugh at ourselves, when the time comes. Or... the portrayal isn't actually targeting group of the character embodying the trope. It's targeting those that hold such tropes, in a way that exposes the absurdity of them. There was a movie few years ago, Tropic Thunder. Robert Downy Jr is in black-face the entire movie, and it's hilarious - and somehow he isn't cancelled. Why? His character in the movie is a white, self-serious method actor (he stays in character all the time), who had medical treatments to alter the pigment of his skin in order to portray the African-American lead in a movie. And his depiction is one giant super charged trope. But the actual butt of the joke isn't black people - its actually the pretentious actors and Hollywood in general. In essence, its making a statement about the absurdity, self-importance, actors, studios, etc in Hollywood, and the lack of the social justice and equality there. South Park wields "*ist" tropes in a similar way, and I think its incorrect to think of it as racism, or xenophobia, etc. In South Park, there's one black character in the cast, and his name is Token. As in the token black kid. Out of context, and on its face, it might seem racist. But its saying something else, just like RDJ's role in Tropic Thunder.
  - Faark 7y ago
    > and his name is Token Thank you, it just clicked...
  - cestith 7y ago
    To be more precise he's the only black fairly major child character. He has a family, there was Chef in earlier seasons, there are a few black minor recurring characters besides those, and there are black single-episode characters. But yes, after the death of Chef it turns out Token is the only major character who is black.
  - farisjarrah 7y ago
    Tropic Thunder Robert Downey Jr. compilation from youtube for context. NSFW due to violence and swearing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9eUnzGc_Kw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9eUnzGc_Kw
  - chrisweekly 7y ago
    Agreed! FTR I wasn't accusing SP of being *ist, rather looking for something like "xenophobia", as applied toward people from a particular nation; in this case, perhaps "Sinophobia"?
murph-almighty 7y ago
EDIT: After writing this I realized the parent comment was talking about an episode of South Park from S12, not the recent episode that led to the ban in China. I'll leave this up but read into this with that context! You should really actually watch the episode. It's a blatant dig at China's government, censorship policies, and treatment of political prisoners. Its treatment of `China invading the US` were not out of `paranoia`, as you say, but based out of reality. It attacks Disney for making similar concessions to the Chinese government in its MCU movies. Spoilers, but deeper analysis: Randy's story arc this season appears to revolve around surrendering your morals for the next dollar- for example, last season he turned down a deal with a large marijuana corporation to continue his home-grow operation, but proceeded to create a partnership with them in the season premiere to ensure his stake in South Park's weed market. The scene where he garrotes Winnie the Pooh in this episode, to me, is an extension of this same theme- the sellout of what we've taken as sacred, except now, it's to China's CCP. Contrast that to the name of Randy's farm, which is a bastardization of the word `integrity`. The entire segment about the band biopic in this episode is basically saying the same thing but far more overtly.
- Faark 7y ago
  The parent was commenting one the episode linked in that image (S12E8), since that was that GP compared the current episode to.
  - murph-almighty 7y ago
    Damn! Thanks for the clarification there, I'll edit my post to reflect that.

chrisweekly 7y ago

Without touching on the ethical / moral aspect of stereotyping or disrespecting large groups of people, I'm curious if "racist" is the right adjective here, vs some other term that relates more to nationality vs biological ethnicity?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
waterhouse 7y ago
I think it is the right adjective for what I have in mind. Scenarios I was looking to compare include "Celebrity uses race-based insults (e.g. slurs, references to stereotypical physical attributes) against a Chinese-American, or a group of them", vs "Celebrity uses race-based insults against a Chinese person living in China, or a group of them", vs "Celebrity condemns X action by the Chinese government". Ideally, one could find incidents of each type with similarly high-profile celebrities at similarly high-profile events, and then compare the responses.
SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
The way South Park employs xenophobic/racist/sexist tropes is interesting - they are either so silly that its really hard for anyone to take offense, or they spread it around so much - no one group is ever singled out - and no one group is ever spared. That gives us all permission to laugh at them, and laugh at ourselves, when the time comes. Or... the portrayal isn't actually targeting group of the character embodying the trope. It's targeting those that hold such tropes, in a way that exposes the absurdity of them. There was a movie few years ago, Tropic Thunder. Robert Downy Jr is in black-face the entire movie, and it's hilarious - and somehow he isn't cancelled. Why? His character in the movie is a white, self-serious method actor (he stays in character all the time), who had medical treatments to alter the pigment of his skin in order to portray the African-American lead in a movie. And his depiction is one giant super charged trope. But the actual butt of the joke isn't black people - its actually the pretentious actors and Hollywood in general. In essence, its making a statement about the absurdity, self-importance, actors, studios, etc in Hollywood, and the lack of the social justice and equality there. South Park wields "*ist" tropes in a similar way, and I think its incorrect to think of it as racism, or xenophobia, etc. In South Park, there's one black character in the cast, and his name is Token. As in the token black kid. Out of context, and on its face, it might seem racist. But its saying something else, just like RDJ's role in Tropic Thunder.
- Faark 7y ago
  > and his name is Token Thank you, it just clicked...
- cestith 7y ago
  To be more precise he's the only black fairly major child character. He has a family, there was Chef in earlier seasons, there are a few black minor recurring characters besides those, and there are black single-episode characters. But yes, after the death of Chef it turns out Token is the only major character who is black.
- farisjarrah 7y ago
  Tropic Thunder Robert Downey Jr. compilation from youtube for context. NSFW due to violence and swearing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9eUnzGc_Kw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9eUnzGc_Kw
- chrisweekly 7y ago
  Agreed! FTR I wasn't accusing SP of being *ist, rather looking for something like "xenophobia", as applied toward people from a particular nation; in this case, perhaps "Sinophobia"?

murph-almighty 7y ago

EDIT: After writing this I realized the parent comment was talking about an episode of South Park from S12, not the recent episode that led to the ban in China. I'll leave this up but read into this with that context! You should really actually watch the episode. It's a blatant dig at China's government, censorship policies, and treatment of political prisoners. Its treatment of `China invading the US` were not out of `paranoia`, as you say, but based out of reality. It attacks Disney for making similar concessions to the Chinese government in its MCU movies. Spoilers, but deeper analysis: Randy's story arc this season appears to revolve around surrendering your morals for the next dollar- for example, last season he turned down a deal with a large marijuana corporation to continue his home-grow operation, but proceeded to create a partnership with them in the season premiere to ensure his stake in South Park's weed market. The scene where he garrotes Winnie the Pooh in this episode, to me, is an extension of this same theme- the sellout of what we've taken as sacred, except now, it's to China's CCP. Contrast that to the name of Randy's farm, which is a bastardization of the word `integrity`. The entire segment about the band biopic in this episode is basically saying the same thing but far more overtly.

Faark 7y ago
The parent was commenting one the episode linked in that image (S12E8), since that was that GP compared the current episode to.
- murph-almighty 7y ago
  Damn! Thanks for the clarification there, I'll edit my post to reflect that.