7 ms·

What’s kinda funny is how made fun of China was in past South Park episodes[0] and China didn’t care at all about the show, but last week’s episode was the one

What’s kinda funny is how made fun of China was in past South Park episodes[0] and China didn’t care at all about the show, but last week’s episode was the one that set them off. [0] “The China Probrem”: https://images.app.goo.gl/mDqxY6pSuNHtA66M8 https://images.app.goo.gl/mDqxY6pSuNHtA66M8

est31 7y ago
That episode is 10 years old and falls under the pre-Xi era leadership. Under Xi, authoritarianism in China has been increased next to China enforcing such policies beyond their own borders.
segfaultbuserr 7y ago
It shows the current political climate is unusual.
- coldtea 7y ago
  Sometimes it just shows that something got viral where others didn't. You could have 200 things mentioning a country or situation, and only 1 or 2 going viral and getting some kind of major response. It's not like South Park is the only show making fun of China either -- so of 100s of shows and comedy sketches, etc, it was some part that touched a nerve or accidentally got more popular there...
  - segfaultbuserr 7y ago
    I'd say it also shows that during the period of intensified political pressure, things are more likely to go viral and trigger a strong reaction.
waterhouse 7y ago
Going off the Wikipedia plot summary of the episode, it looks like it makes fun of (a) Chinese-American people (not the Chinese government); and (b) paranoid fantasies of Westerners about China invading the U.S.; and ultimately "Cartman decides he'd rather be Chinese than "a nation of unethical dick shooters"". My model of the Chinese government at the moment is that they primarily care about opposition/disrespect/criticism of the Chinese government. Does anyone have data points as to whether they care about, say, present-day racist insults of (a) Chinese-Americans; (b) Chinese living in China? Might be interesting to see where the lines are drawn.
- chrisweekly 7y ago
  Without touching on the ethical / moral aspect of stereotyping or disrespecting large groups of people, I'm curious if "racist" is the right adjective here, vs some other term that relates more to nationality vs biological ethnicity?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - waterhouse 7y ago
    I think it is the right adjective for what I have in mind. Scenarios I was looking to compare include "Celebrity uses race-based insults (e.g. slurs, references to stereotypical physical attributes) against a Chinese-American, or a group of them", vs "Celebrity uses race-based insults against a Chinese person living in China, or a group of them", vs "Celebrity condemns X action by the Chinese government". Ideally, one could find incidents of each type with similarly high-profile celebrities at similarly high-profile events, and then compare the responses.
  - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
    The way South Park employs xenophobic/racist/sexist tropes is interesting - they are either so silly that its really hard for anyone to take offense, or they spread it around so much - no one group is ever singled out - and no one group is ever spared. That gives us all permission to laugh at them, and laugh at ourselves, when the time comes. Or... the portrayal isn't actually targeting group of the character embodying the trope. It's targeting those that hold such tropes, in a way that exposes the absurdity of them. There was a movie few years ago, Tropic Thunder. Robert Downy Jr is in black-face the entire movie, and it's hilarious - and somehow he isn't cancelled. Why? His character in the movie is a white, self-serious method actor (he stays in character all the time), who had medical treatments to alter the pigment of his skin in order to portray the African-American lead in a movie. And his depiction is one giant super charged trope. But the actual butt of the joke isn't black people - its actually the pretentious actors and Hollywood in general. In essence, its making a statement about the absurdity, self-importance, actors, studios, etc in Hollywood, and the lack of the social justice and equality there. South Park wields "*ist" tropes in a similar way, and I think its incorrect to think of it as racism, or xenophobia, etc. In South Park, there's one black character in the cast, and his name is Token. As in the token black kid. Out of context, and on its face, it might seem racist. But its saying something else, just like RDJ's role in Tropic Thunder.
avcdsuia 7y ago
> how made fun of China was in past South Park episodes Well, stereotypes of Chinese aren't eloquent enough to piss off the CCP. As a mainlander, Band in China is a spot-on satire about China under Xi's ruling (apart from the background music), and every threat to the legitimacy of the authority would be quenched while making fun of Chinese ppl is by no means harmful.
drawkbox 7y ago
Comedy is not dead. Comedy can change minds. Comedy is powerful and attacks the self-important and authoritarianism. Comedy can take on serious challenges in the best way. > John Cleese in On Creativity said: "the self-important always know with some level of their consciousness that their egotism is going to be punctured by humor -- that's why they see it as a threat. And so {they} dishonestly pretend that their deficiency makes their views more substantial, when it only makes them feel bigger. {John blows "raspberries" with his tongue.} No, humor is an essential part of spontaneity, an essential part of playfulness, an essential part of the creativity that we need to solve problems, no matter how 'serious' they may be. " [1] Not everyone is appeasing authoritarians, definitely not South Park. China is Cartman right now "RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!" [1] https://youtu.be/Pb5oIIPO62g?t=1544 https://youtu.be/Pb5oIIPO62g?t=1544
- smitty1e 7y ago
  Comedy is threatened by corporations and people assuming the position for tyranny.
  - magashna 7y ago
    Maybe corporate comedy. There will always be a joke in dark places. You can find books written from the jokes told by those in the Nazi concentration camps.
    - zadler 7y ago
      Do you have any examples of such books?
    - jaeh 7y ago
      "the pessimists are in new york, the optimists are in auschwitz." source: woman i cared for when working in a home for the elderly. she had a number tattoo.
  - Shivetya 7y ago
    Comedy faces a greater threat from the "woke" #metoo crowd at colleges and online than any profit seeking corporate entity.
louthy 7y ago
Slight tangent: A previous episode of South Park (Super Best Friends) also showed a picture of Muhammad [1], which caused zero problems. A later one (Cartoon Wars) had Muhammad censored by Comedy Central because it was after the furore over the Dutch Muhammad cartoons. I guess with all these things it’s about context and the political climate. [1] https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjJmMTUzOGEtYjEyNS00MDJiLTlkZGQtMThhYWE3NjE3YjkzXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyODQxOTQ3OTU@._V1_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjJmMTUzOGEtYjEyNS00...
throwaway13372 7y ago
Had any one or any group of people left any impression that they can be consistent across long time frame? If so, let me know, I'd be very interested in studying their logic thinking and memory, and how they manage to be consistent at all. That said, there are billions of reasons why things was reacted this way or ignored altogether, and later differently. That's the norm.

est31 7y ago

That episode is 10 years old and falls under the pre-Xi era leadership. Under Xi, authoritarianism in China has been increased next to China enforcing such policies beyond their own borders.

segfaultbuserr 7y ago

It shows the current political climate is unusual.

coldtea 7y ago
Sometimes it just shows that something got viral where others didn't. You could have 200 things mentioning a country or situation, and only 1 or 2 going viral and getting some kind of major response. It's not like South Park is the only show making fun of China either -- so of 100s of shows and comedy sketches, etc, it was some part that touched a nerve or accidentally got more popular there...
- segfaultbuserr 7y ago
  I'd say it also shows that during the period of intensified political pressure, things are more likely to go viral and trigger a strong reaction.

waterhouse 7y ago

Going off the Wikipedia plot summary of the episode, it looks like it makes fun of (a) Chinese-American people (not the Chinese government); and (b) paranoid fantasies of Westerners about China invading the U.S.; and ultimately "Cartman decides he'd rather be Chinese than "a nation of unethical dick shooters"". My model of the Chinese government at the moment is that they primarily care about opposition/disrespect/criticism of the Chinese government. Does anyone have data points as to whether they care about, say, present-day racist insults of (a) Chinese-Americans; (b) Chinese living in China? Might be interesting to see where the lines are drawn.

chrisweekly 7y ago
Without touching on the ethical / moral aspect of stereotyping or disrespecting large groups of people, I'm curious if "racist" is the right adjective here, vs some other term that relates more to nationality vs biological ethnicity?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- waterhouse 7y ago
  I think it is the right adjective for what I have in mind. Scenarios I was looking to compare include "Celebrity uses race-based insults (e.g. slurs, references to stereotypical physical attributes) against a Chinese-American, or a group of them", vs "Celebrity uses race-based insults against a Chinese person living in China, or a group of them", vs "Celebrity condemns X action by the Chinese government". Ideally, one could find incidents of each type with similarly high-profile celebrities at similarly high-profile events, and then compare the responses.
- SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
  The way South Park employs xenophobic/racist/sexist tropes is interesting - they are either so silly that its really hard for anyone to take offense, or they spread it around so much - no one group is ever singled out - and no one group is ever spared. That gives us all permission to laugh at them, and laugh at ourselves, when the time comes. Or... the portrayal isn't actually targeting group of the character embodying the trope. It's targeting those that hold such tropes, in a way that exposes the absurdity of them. There was a movie few years ago, Tropic Thunder. Robert Downy Jr is in black-face the entire movie, and it's hilarious - and somehow he isn't cancelled. Why? His character in the movie is a white, self-serious method actor (he stays in character all the time), who had medical treatments to alter the pigment of his skin in order to portray the African-American lead in a movie. And his depiction is one giant super charged trope. But the actual butt of the joke isn't black people - its actually the pretentious actors and Hollywood in general. In essence, its making a statement about the absurdity, self-importance, actors, studios, etc in Hollywood, and the lack of the social justice and equality there. South Park wields "*ist" tropes in a similar way, and I think its incorrect to think of it as racism, or xenophobia, etc. In South Park, there's one black character in the cast, and his name is Token. As in the token black kid. Out of context, and on its face, it might seem racist. But its saying something else, just like RDJ's role in Tropic Thunder.

avcdsuia 7y ago

> how made fun of China was in past South Park episodes Well, stereotypes of Chinese aren't eloquent enough to piss off the CCP. As a mainlander, Band in China is a spot-on satire about China under Xi's ruling (apart from the background music), and every threat to the legitimacy of the authority would be quenched while making fun of Chinese ppl is by no means harmful.

drawkbox 7y ago

Comedy is not dead. Comedy can change minds. Comedy is powerful and attacks the self-important and authoritarianism. Comedy can take on serious challenges in the best way. > John Cleese in On Creativity said: "the self-important always know with some level of their consciousness that their egotism is going to be punctured by humor -- that's why they see it as a threat. And so {they} dishonestly pretend that their deficiency makes their views more substantial, when it only makes them feel bigger. {John blows "raspberries" with his tongue.} No, humor is an essential part of spontaneity, an essential part of playfulness, an essential part of the creativity that we need to solve problems, no matter how 'serious' they may be. " [1] Not everyone is appeasing authoritarians, definitely not South Park. China is Cartman right now "RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!" [1] https://youtu.be/Pb5oIIPO62g?t=1544 https://youtu.be/Pb5oIIPO62g?t=1544

smitty1e 7y ago
Comedy is threatened by corporations and people assuming the position for tyranny.
- magashna 7y ago
  Maybe corporate comedy. There will always be a joke in dark places. You can find books written from the jokes told by those in the Nazi concentration camps.
  - zadler 7y ago
    Do you have any examples of such books?
  - jaeh 7y ago
    "the pessimists are in new york, the optimists are in auschwitz." source: woman i cared for when working in a home for the elderly. she had a number tattoo.
- Shivetya 7y ago
  Comedy faces a greater threat from the "woke" #metoo crowd at colleges and online than any profit seeking corporate entity.

louthy 7y ago

Slight tangent: A previous episode of South Park (Super Best Friends) also showed a picture of Muhammad [1], which caused zero problems. A later one (Cartoon Wars) had Muhammad censored by Comedy Central because it was after the furore over the Dutch Muhammad cartoons. I guess with all these things it’s about context and the political climate. [1] https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjJmMTUzOGEtYjEyNS00MDJiLTlkZGQtMThhYWE3NjE3YjkzXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyODQxOTQ3OTU@._V1_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjJmMTUzOGEtYjEyNS00...

throwaway13372 7y ago

Had any one or any group of people left any impression that they can be consistent across long time frame? If so, let me know, I'd be very interested in studying their logic thinking and memory, and how they manage to be consistent at all. That said, there are billions of reasons why things was reacted this way or ignored altogether, and later differently. That's the norm.