4 ms·

That's a difficult argument? Is the manager not part of the team? Depends on the org, I guess. Either way, I'm not so sure the statement means much. The poi

That's a difficult argument? Is the manager not part of the team? Depends on the org, I guess. Either way, I'm not so sure the statement means much. The point of agile is to do what's helps, so if a standup is useful for the above reasons, it's entirly possible that another approach solves the same problem, negating the need for the standup.

kthejoker2 7y ago
Not every group interaction requires every member of the group, not sure what's hard to grasp about that. The manager has plenty of other ways to gather status updates and feedback as you note.
- ownagefool 7y ago
  > not sure what's hard to grasp about that. Your tone is slightly rude considering you're essentially agreeing with me. You'll need to note the entire thread for the context of my discussion. I was specifically saying a good tech lead and other senior engineers can help engineers get unstuck without actually necessitating a standup. For me, standups are fine if the team actually want to do them and find them useful, but 9 times out of 10 they're enforced by someone non-technical and require the entire team listen to people drone on justifying what they did yesterday. Personally, I find the assumption that I can't communicate with fellow engineers without such a thing pretty insulting, but do understand that some of us do struggle with this thing, so it's different strokes for different folks.
cmrdporcupine 7y ago
It definitely depends on the structure of the org. But I do make a distinction between management and team lead. On some teams the management is technical and involved in daily tasks. In others, less so. But the key thing is that the daily standup is NOT a status report for management! That should not be its purpose! It is for the team members to sync with each other, not a daily report for task management.
- ownagefool 7y ago
  I don't disagree and for the record I'm an engineer. I don't think my points are actually counter to yours. :)

kthejoker2 7y ago

Not every group interaction requires every member of the group, not sure what's hard to grasp about that. The manager has plenty of other ways to gather status updates and feedback as you note.

ownagefool 7y ago
> not sure what's hard to grasp about that. Your tone is slightly rude considering you're essentially agreeing with me. You'll need to note the entire thread for the context of my discussion. I was specifically saying a good tech lead and other senior engineers can help engineers get unstuck without actually necessitating a standup. For me, standups are fine if the team actually want to do them and find them useful, but 9 times out of 10 they're enforced by someone non-technical and require the entire team listen to people drone on justifying what they did yesterday. Personally, I find the assumption that I can't communicate with fellow engineers without such a thing pretty insulting, but do understand that some of us do struggle with this thing, so it's different strokes for different folks.

cmrdporcupine 7y ago

It definitely depends on the structure of the org. But I do make a distinction between management and team lead. On some teams the management is technical and involved in daily tasks. In others, less so. But the key thing is that the daily standup is NOT a status report for management! That should not be its purpose! It is for the team members to sync with each other, not a daily report for task management.

ownagefool 7y ago
I don't disagree and for the record I'm an engineer. I don't think my points are actually counter to yours. :)