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The main problem I see is that these taxes serve as a friction to conducting business. That is, after all, the intent, but if they only apply locally and there

The main problem I see is that these taxes serve as a friction to conducting business. That is, after all, the intent, but if they only apply locally and there is no international enforcement mechanism (there can't and won't be) then this will disadvantage more our already failing economies. Killing people, even indirectly, is already illegal. We need enforcement (esp. abroad) and not more laws. Show me that there is a tractable enforcement mechanism for these taxes in other countries and I might support them.

Taniwha 7y ago
Essentially polluting businesses are externalizing some of their costs to the public purse (who eventually have to clean up after them) - these are not really taxes, they are simply those externalized costs that they should have been paying in the first place. Really we should be criminalizing this behavior. It's not any different that the city turning up on your front doorstep with the bags of rubbish you dumped on the side of the road and charging you for the cost of cleaning it up
- snagglegaggle 7y ago
  Yes, I'm aware. But as this adds cost businesses are incentivized to move operations elsewhere where externalities are not taxed. That is why I asked "what is the enforcement mechanism in other countries?" If it is just applied internally it disadvantages the host country.
s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
Countries enforcing locally can apply tariffs to foreign companies violating emissions.
oska 7y ago
The EU is already discussing how to implement a 'carbon border tax' [1]. I believe other political entities have also looked at such import levies on goods coming from external domains where pollution taxes are lower or non existent. With pollution of the atmosphere there is also a case for making the atmosphere itself a legal person that is 'damaged' by pollution and paid redress. Personally I'm interested in this kind of idea but it's probably extending the scope of this particular discussion too far. [1] https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-mulls-a-carbon-border-tax/ https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-mulls-a-carbon-border...
- olivermarks 7y ago
  The 'greenhouse gas' tax efforts are essentially EU versus the WTO from a legal perspective. The EU has decided and ratified legally the concept that greenhouse gases are damaging and a revenue source while the jury is out at the WTO despite a lot of posturing

Taniwha 7y ago

Essentially polluting businesses are externalizing some of their costs to the public purse (who eventually have to clean up after them) - these are not really taxes, they are simply those externalized costs that they should have been paying in the first place. Really we should be criminalizing this behavior. It's not any different that the city turning up on your front doorstep with the bags of rubbish you dumped on the side of the road and charging you for the cost of cleaning it up

snagglegaggle 7y ago
Yes, I'm aware. But as this adds cost businesses are incentivized to move operations elsewhere where externalities are not taxed. That is why I asked "what is the enforcement mechanism in other countries?" If it is just applied internally it disadvantages the host country.

s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago

Countries enforcing locally can apply tariffs to foreign companies violating emissions.

oska 7y ago

The EU is already discussing how to implement a 'carbon border tax' [1]. I believe other political entities have also looked at such import levies on goods coming from external domains where pollution taxes are lower or non existent. With pollution of the atmosphere there is also a case for making the atmosphere itself a legal person that is 'damaged' by pollution and paid redress. Personally I'm interested in this kind of idea but it's probably extending the scope of this particular discussion too far. [1] https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-mulls-a-carbon-border-tax/ https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-mulls-a-carbon-border...

olivermarks 7y ago
The 'greenhouse gas' tax efforts are essentially EU versus the WTO from a legal perspective. The EU has decided and ratified legally the concept that greenhouse gases are damaging and a revenue source while the jury is out at the WTO despite a lot of posturing