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Assuming you argue in good faith, how about this: 1. Germany annexed the Rhineland, Sudetenland, and Austria using the justification of unifying German-speakin

Assuming you argue in good faith, how about this: 1. Germany annexed the Rhineland, Sudetenland, and Austria using the justification of unifying German-speaking peoples under a single banner. The Chinese line for Hong Kong and Taiwan is the same -- you look Chinese, you are Chinese and to say otherwise is treason and will get you labeled an American lap-dog. I can tell you this firsthand as a Chinese-American and if you need a more concrete example, just look at how the Chinese treated Gary Locke. 2. Revenge for the perceived humiliation of Versailles was a core driving factor for the rise of Nazism in post-Weimar Germany. If you can give me another explanation for the state of Chinese-Japanese relations, I will eat my words. 3. Go on any Chinese social media site and the amount of nationalist rhetoric you'll find is quite disturbing. Having pride in your country is one thing, to insist on your national, racial, and cultural supremacy is another. 4. Google what's going on in Xinjiang and tell me that doesn't stink of something. Maybe I'm wrong and just being an alarmist, and it would certainly be in the best interest for the world if I were, but ask yourself -- what are the stakes this time if I'm not?

spats1990 7y ago
1. Germany was preparing for outright war throughout the 1930s. Conscription was introduced in 1935.Is China seriously planning to militarily annex Taiwan? Leaving aside propaganda etc. 2. This point appears to be about how unfair historical treatment can lead to fascism. Are you saying that the people of China are headed in this direction? 3. I'll defer to your judgement as I presume you read mandarin/canto, but I don't see a big difference from western social networks there, except for probably in terms of number of users (larger userbase) . I can read Korean fairly well and see those kinds of nationalist comments on Korean social media sites as well (funnily enough, they also aren't fans of Japan at the moment. ) 4. I know what's happening there and am a little hurt you'd assume I'd get into a discussion like this without knowing. Human rights abuses are bad. That seems like the most one can say without getting accused of whataboutism. Are there gas chambers in those camps? (edit:clarification below) >Maybe I'm wrong and just being an alarmist Maybe you're right and I'm just trying to hope for the best. My original post on this thread came mostly from shock as I was raised on the internet era where it was considered a faux pas to do blithe Nazi comparisons. so I was mildly astounded to see that the top voted comment in here boiled down to "China is Weimar/Nazi Germany."
- scrollaway 7y ago
  > Are there gas chambers in those camps? What on earth does it change whether there's gas chambers in there? If you're trying to claim they're not 1940s nazi germany, just say they don't speak german and be done with it. If you're aware of what's happening over there then you are aware of the torture, yes?
  - spats1990 7y ago
    sorry, on mobile and could have phrased that better. Does the outright extermination of the Uyghurs appear to be the PRC's ultimate goal?
    - scrollaway 7y ago
      Uh… yes?
      - whoevercares 7y ago
        As someone else said, force integration is the goal. Chinese culture rarely need to eliminate anything, it just absorb them
    - x220 7y ago
      You assume that a regime that does exterminate an ethnicity makes it appear from the outset as their ultimate goal. Historians of the Holocaust rigorously debate whether the Nazis intended from the start to exterminate all Jews worldwide. There's no straightforward answer. If you want to know where the threat of genocide exists, you don't look merely at rhetoric. Genocide happens across several discrete stages. It usually starts with popular sentiments such as "you are not like us, you are not one of us", proceeds to "you may not live among us", then ultimately ends in "you may not live". China is at the step immediately before extermination. The number one predictor of extermination isn't rhetoric, it's ghettoization and internment.
    - yumraj 7y ago
      Yes. That is its ideal goal. Since in today's world an outright genocide is difficult, it is settling for reeducation camps
tempa1111333 7y ago
> Go on any Chinese social media site and the amount of nationalist rhetoric you'll find is quite disturbing Thank you for pointing this out. The amount of nationalistic remark from some HN commenters is also quite disturbing. Denial, ad hominem, and cynicism seems to be their strategy. Most China submissions that they don’t like suddenly forum slide like crazy by triggering the flame war detector; downvoting anything they don’t want to hear without merit.
- dang 7y ago
  This is the kind of off-topic accusation that both sides hurl at each other, to the precise extent that they feel passionately about the subject, and in clear violation of the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. It's toxic and information-free. Please don't.
dang 7y ago
Please stop and don't do this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21189201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21189201

spats1990 7y ago

1. Germany was preparing for outright war throughout the 1930s. Conscription was introduced in 1935.Is China seriously planning to militarily annex Taiwan? Leaving aside propaganda etc. 2. This point appears to be about how unfair historical treatment can lead to fascism. Are you saying that the people of China are headed in this direction? 3. I'll defer to your judgement as I presume you read mandarin/canto, but I don't see a big difference from western social networks there, except for probably in terms of number of users (larger userbase) . I can read Korean fairly well and see those kinds of nationalist comments on Korean social media sites as well (funnily enough, they also aren't fans of Japan at the moment. ) 4. I know what's happening there and am a little hurt you'd assume I'd get into a discussion like this without knowing. Human rights abuses are bad. That seems like the most one can say without getting accused of whataboutism. Are there gas chambers in those camps? (edit:clarification below) >Maybe I'm wrong and just being an alarmist Maybe you're right and I'm just trying to hope for the best. My original post on this thread came mostly from shock as I was raised on the internet era where it was considered a faux pas to do blithe Nazi comparisons. so I was mildly astounded to see that the top voted comment in here boiled down to "China is Weimar/Nazi Germany."

scrollaway 7y ago
> Are there gas chambers in those camps? What on earth does it change whether there's gas chambers in there? If you're trying to claim they're not 1940s nazi germany, just say they don't speak german and be done with it. If you're aware of what's happening over there then you are aware of the torture, yes?
- spats1990 7y ago
  sorry, on mobile and could have phrased that better. Does the outright extermination of the Uyghurs appear to be the PRC's ultimate goal?
  - scrollaway 7y ago
    Uh… yes?
    - whoevercares 7y ago
      As someone else said, force integration is the goal. Chinese culture rarely need to eliminate anything, it just absorb them
  - x220 7y ago
    You assume that a regime that does exterminate an ethnicity makes it appear from the outset as their ultimate goal. Historians of the Holocaust rigorously debate whether the Nazis intended from the start to exterminate all Jews worldwide. There's no straightforward answer. If you want to know where the threat of genocide exists, you don't look merely at rhetoric. Genocide happens across several discrete stages. It usually starts with popular sentiments such as "you are not like us, you are not one of us", proceeds to "you may not live among us", then ultimately ends in "you may not live". China is at the step immediately before extermination. The number one predictor of extermination isn't rhetoric, it's ghettoization and internment.
  - yumraj 7y ago
    Yes. That is its ideal goal. Since in today's world an outright genocide is difficult, it is settling for reeducation camps

tempa1111333 7y ago

> Go on any Chinese social media site and the amount of nationalist rhetoric you'll find is quite disturbing Thank you for pointing this out. The amount of nationalistic remark from some HN commenters is also quite disturbing. Denial, ad hominem, and cynicism seems to be their strategy. Most China submissions that they don’t like suddenly forum slide like crazy by triggering the flame war detector; downvoting anything they don’t want to hear without merit.

dang 7y ago
This is the kind of off-topic accusation that both sides hurl at each other, to the precise extent that they feel passionately about the subject, and in clear violation of the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. It's toxic and information-free. Please don't.

dang 7y ago

Please stop and don't do this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21189201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21189201