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The argument against electric cars that bothers me the most is this "Try driving across the country with it." Try driving an internal combustion engine car acr

The argument against electric cars that bothers me the most is this "Try driving across the country with it." Try driving an internal combustion engine car across the country without an infrastructure to support it. See how far you get. Hell, even with gas stations everywhere today you don't want to be caught on I-80 in Utah with a low tank. There are some stretches of road where the next station isn't for 100 miles.

hugh3 16y ago
What's your point? There is an infrastructure to support internal combustion engines. There isn't one to support cross-country trips in electric cars, and building one would be very hard to impossible... at least unless someone makes one powered by ultracapacitors.
- anthonycerra 16y ago
  First, I should be clear in saying that it bothers me when people brush off electric cars completely with that one argument. My questions for you: Why is it "impossible" to develop a new infrastructure? Can you provide any data to support that? I'm always interested to know why people think "because it doesn't exist, it can't exist". And to answer your question, here are my points: 1) When automobiles were first adopted it was unlikely that people were taking long trips. The infrastructure developed over time. Give these people some time to develop the new infrastructure. 2) That common argument neglects to recognize I can charge an electric car in my garage every night. I don't need charging/battery swapping stations everywhere. (Though, I concede, people in apartments would) 3) The above point is particularly significant when you realize that the commute for millions of people everyday is only a few miles. Are electric cars going to solve everyone's problems today? No. Are they poised to solve the problems for many people soon? Absolutely.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    I'm always interested to know why people think "because it doesn't exist, it can't exist". Because batteries take hours to charge, rather than minutes, it makes long trips awfully impractical. That's just plain ol' chemistry getting in the way, absent some huge advance in technology. Some have suggested hot-swappable battery packs, but bearing in mind that battery packs weigh hundreds of kilos and degrade over time (meaning you can never be sure you're not going to get a shitty one) then it makes life tricky. Personally I think the Chevy Volt has the right idea: combine fully-electric behaviour for short trips with the capability to do long trips by burning fuel. I'd definitely consider buying something with that kind of tech once it becomes available in a wider variety of cars.
    - anthonycerra 16y ago
      You've grown accustom to putting a nozzle into a fuel tank to replenish your car's energy store. That works best for internal combustion engines, but it's completely arbitrary to force electric cars to fit into that model. Battery swapping stations are the answer, at least for now. Heavy things are lifted and moved all the time with machinery like forklifts. Because a human can't lift them is not a reason to say it's impossible.
- stuhood 16y ago
  Note that the Tesla Roadster can be charged to full in ~3 hours on the 240V outlets found in RV Parks. Crossing Utah is no problem: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=rv+park+near+Utah http://maps.google.com/maps?q=rv+park+near+Utah
  - hugh3 16y ago
    Sure, if you don't mind stopping for three hours every hundred and fifty miles...
brc 16y ago
Indeed - try filling a modern 90 litre tank using a turn-of-the-century hand cranked pump and see how long it takes. The range problem will always be there in some respect, but for many people it won't be an issue if the car is a 2nd car. And the infrastructure will get rolled out eventually. The beauty of it is that independent quick-charge stations could literally spring up anywhere the power is already on. And for the retailers, consumers stuck for 20 or 30 minutes while their car is recharged probably sounds like a dream come true. For a long time, the profit in fuel retailing has come from the overpriced convenience stores attached to the fuel pumps.
- wlievens 16y ago
  A 90 litre tank? Do american cars have such big fuel tanks? Odd, I've never driven a car with a tank over 60 litres (all Euro models).
  - brc 16y ago
    I have a European car and it has a 75 litre tank.
yosh 16y ago
FWIW, the longest stretch of interstate without services is I-70 in Utah, at 106 miles. I don't think I-80 has any >100 mile stretches without gas, but possibly 80 mile stretches. Off interstates though, the west can get pretty empty. This is near the Nevada/Oregon border: http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/cherokeeprogressive/NextGas.jpg http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/cherokeeprogressive...

hugh3 16y ago

What's your point? There is an infrastructure to support internal combustion engines. There isn't one to support cross-country trips in electric cars, and building one would be very hard to impossible... at least unless someone makes one powered by ultracapacitors.

anthonycerra 16y ago
First, I should be clear in saying that it bothers me when people brush off electric cars completely with that one argument. My questions for you: Why is it "impossible" to develop a new infrastructure? Can you provide any data to support that? I'm always interested to know why people think "because it doesn't exist, it can't exist". And to answer your question, here are my points: 1) When automobiles were first adopted it was unlikely that people were taking long trips. The infrastructure developed over time. Give these people some time to develop the new infrastructure. 2) That common argument neglects to recognize I can charge an electric car in my garage every night. I don't need charging/battery swapping stations everywhere. (Though, I concede, people in apartments would) 3) The above point is particularly significant when you realize that the commute for millions of people everyday is only a few miles. Are electric cars going to solve everyone's problems today? No. Are they poised to solve the problems for many people soon? Absolutely.
- hugh3 16y ago
  I'm always interested to know why people think "because it doesn't exist, it can't exist". Because batteries take hours to charge, rather than minutes, it makes long trips awfully impractical. That's just plain ol' chemistry getting in the way, absent some huge advance in technology. Some have suggested hot-swappable battery packs, but bearing in mind that battery packs weigh hundreds of kilos and degrade over time (meaning you can never be sure you're not going to get a shitty one) then it makes life tricky. Personally I think the Chevy Volt has the right idea: combine fully-electric behaviour for short trips with the capability to do long trips by burning fuel. I'd definitely consider buying something with that kind of tech once it becomes available in a wider variety of cars.
  - anthonycerra 16y ago
    You've grown accustom to putting a nozzle into a fuel tank to replenish your car's energy store. That works best for internal combustion engines, but it's completely arbitrary to force electric cars to fit into that model. Battery swapping stations are the answer, at least for now. Heavy things are lifted and moved all the time with machinery like forklifts. Because a human can't lift them is not a reason to say it's impossible.
stuhood 16y ago
Note that the Tesla Roadster can be charged to full in ~3 hours on the 240V outlets found in RV Parks. Crossing Utah is no problem: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=rv+park+near+Utah http://maps.google.com/maps?q=rv+park+near+Utah
- hugh3 16y ago
  Sure, if you don't mind stopping for three hours every hundred and fifty miles...

brc 16y ago

Indeed - try filling a modern 90 litre tank using a turn-of-the-century hand cranked pump and see how long it takes. The range problem will always be there in some respect, but for many people it won't be an issue if the car is a 2nd car. And the infrastructure will get rolled out eventually. The beauty of it is that independent quick-charge stations could literally spring up anywhere the power is already on. And for the retailers, consumers stuck for 20 or 30 minutes while their car is recharged probably sounds like a dream come true. For a long time, the profit in fuel retailing has come from the overpriced convenience stores attached to the fuel pumps.

wlievens 16y ago
A 90 litre tank? Do american cars have such big fuel tanks? Odd, I've never driven a car with a tank over 60 litres (all Euro models).
- brc 16y ago
  I have a European car and it has a 75 litre tank.

yosh 16y ago

FWIW, the longest stretch of interstate without services is I-70 in Utah, at 106 miles. I don't think I-80 has any >100 mile stretches without gas, but possibly 80 mile stretches. Off interstates though, the west can get pretty empty. This is near the Nevada/Oregon border: http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/cherokeeprogressive/NextGas.jpg http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/cherokeeprogressive...