4 ms·

Good to see something on the road. I'm looking forward to seeing if this is disruptive technology. I inhabit some car blogs from time to time. I can't believ

by brc 16y ago

Good to see something on the road. I'm looking forward to seeing if this is disruptive technology. I inhabit some car blogs from time to time. I can't believe the amount of vitriol directed at Tesla. The first all new American manufacturer in years, working on new tech, constructing within the country, and they get blasted for it. It genuinely baffles me.

fossuser 16y ago
I don't understand it either, people seem to have an irrational hatred towards them. The company has been doing really cool things and the roadster is an awesome car (I know somebody who has one). It's quite possible that Tesla influenced the Nissan Leaf or Chevy volt, but even if they didn't they're doing the right thing. Pushing technology forward in an area where it's been stagnant for a while, getting attention and attempting to change things. I would've thought this type of thing would be embraced rather than discarded.
- bane 16y ago
  Maybe car enthusiasts are more concerned with the testosterone of cars than the tech (all the techy sounding talk comparing component performance is really just a red herring). If the tech can make the engine louder and the car faster, that's hot. Tesla is not offering that exactly.
  - brc 16y ago
    I understand your argument, and it might be true for a certain type who saw the pipes off their Camaro just to make it noisier, but in general, most car people are genuinely interested in new tech. Besides, the only non-testosterone thing about the Tesla is the lack of engine noise. From this, I would argue that the noise is a pavlovian response - the noise accompanies the acceleration and so eventually the noise excites us, even if we're not in the car. Given time, the right sound of electric car noise will tingle the bones of the enthusiast. My basis for this is the response initially given to Rotary engines - purists thought they were too buzzy. However, after anyone has lived with a powerful Rotary engine for a while, the sound of a tuned Rotary immediately pricks the ears. Noise is going to be one of the by-products of a powerful electric engine - witness electric trains like the TGV for that - so I can see the high-powered whine becoming the mark of a high-powered electric, and young enthusiasts will come up with kits to increase the sound, just as they have with V8's, Rotaries, Turbos and every other type of engine tech.
- brc 16y ago
  There's no doubt the Roadster changed things, probably forever, even if they disappear within a few years (or get swallowed up into something bigger). Within 12 months of the Roadster actually being sold, both Audi and Mercedes showed all-electric sports car concepts. Neither had ever mentioned such a thing beforehand. A few manufacturers were dabbling with hybrid tech in some of their cars, but an all-electric sports car was not on the radar at all. Now every motor show has a major manufacturer either displaying an all-electric or hybrid-drive system. The gas turbine hybrid Jag was an awesome concept car. It's just great to see new thinking, and I give Tesla the credit for kicking the baggage of electric cars to the kerb. Building a sports car first was inspired just for the PR value. BMW and Mercedes are scrambling to catch up with their electric tech. Being the engineering giants that both companies are, they will arrive later to the party, but what they produce will be properly good. I've read up on some of the tech BMW is researching for electric vehicles, and it's very promising. I believe the first models will be out in 2013, albeit in a small car format rather than a sports car. I guess we'll find out.
- hugh3 16y ago
  I think it's more to do with vapourware-wariness. Any company which comes out promising to revolutionise the way we do everything will (and should) always encounter a bunch of skepticism. They have, after all, been promising big things for many years now, and so far delivered nothing other than an overpriced sports car for the rich and impractical. They've also been soaking up a lot of government subsidies at all levels to produce their rich-bastard sports car, which ought to bother folks.
  - fossuser 16y ago
    Good point with the vapourware-wariness, but as far as government subsidies go electric vehicles is where some money should be going. Especially when compared to the billions given to companies like GM who were either unable or unwilling to adapt even when facing bankruptcy
SkyMarshal 16y ago
John Gabriel's Greater Internet Dickwad Theory. :(
archangel_one 16y ago
That may be a sign that it is disruptive technology. If it weren't, there wouldn't be that level of vitriol. The only times you see it aimed at other manufacturers is if they do something genuinely awful, or sometimes in better humour if there's a significant rivalry (Subaru/Mitsi, Holden/Ford etc). I guess that shows that IT doesn't have a monopoly on morons with OS fanboys :)
anthonycerra 16y ago
The argument against electric cars that bothers me the most is this "Try driving across the country with it." Try driving an internal combustion engine car across the country without an infrastructure to support it. See how far you get. Hell, even with gas stations everywhere today you don't want to be caught on I-80 in Utah with a low tank. There are some stretches of road where the next station isn't for 100 miles.
- hugh3 16y ago
  What's your point? There is an infrastructure to support internal combustion engines. There isn't one to support cross-country trips in electric cars, and building one would be very hard to impossible... at least unless someone makes one powered by ultracapacitors.
  - anthonycerra 16y ago
    First, I should be clear in saying that it bothers me when people brush off electric cars completely with that one argument. My questions for you: Why is it "impossible" to develop a new infrastructure? Can you provide any data to support that? I'm always interested to know why people think "because it doesn't exist, it can't exist". And to answer your question, here are my points: 1) When automobiles were first adopted it was unlikely that people were taking long trips. The infrastructure developed over time. Give these people some time to develop the new infrastructure. 2) That common argument neglects to recognize I can charge an electric car in my garage every night. I don't need charging/battery swapping stations everywhere. (Though, I concede, people in apartments would) 3) The above point is particularly significant when you realize that the commute for millions of people everyday is only a few miles. Are electric cars going to solve everyone's problems today? No. Are they poised to solve the problems for many people soon? Absolutely.
    - hugh3 16y ago
      I'm always interested to know why people think "because it doesn't exist, it can't exist". Because batteries take hours to charge, rather than minutes, it makes long trips awfully impractical. That's just plain ol' chemistry getting in the way, absent some huge advance in technology. Some have suggested hot-swappable battery packs, but bearing in mind that battery packs weigh hundreds of kilos and degrade over time (meaning you can never be sure you're not going to get a shitty one) then it makes life tricky. Personally I think the Chevy Volt has the right idea: combine fully-electric behaviour for short trips with the capability to do long trips by burning fuel. I'd definitely consider buying something with that kind of tech once it becomes available in a wider variety of cars.

by brc 16y ago

fossuser 16y ago

I don't understand it either, people seem to have an irrational hatred towards them. The company has been doing really cool things and the roadster is an awesome car (I know somebody who has one). It's quite possible that Tesla influenced the Nissan Leaf or Chevy volt, but even if they didn't they're doing the right thing. Pushing technology forward in an area where it's been stagnant for a while, getting attention and attempting to change things. I would've thought this type of thing would be embraced rather than discarded.

bane 16y ago
Maybe car enthusiasts are more concerned with the testosterone of cars than the tech (all the techy sounding talk comparing component performance is really just a red herring). If the tech can make the engine louder and the car faster, that's hot. Tesla is not offering that exactly.
- brc 16y ago
  I understand your argument, and it might be true for a certain type who saw the pipes off their Camaro just to make it noisier, but in general, most car people are genuinely interested in new tech. Besides, the only non-testosterone thing about the Tesla is the lack of engine noise. From this, I would argue that the noise is a pavlovian response - the noise accompanies the acceleration and so eventually the noise excites us, even if we're not in the car. Given time, the right sound of electric car noise will tingle the bones of the enthusiast. My basis for this is the response initially given to Rotary engines - purists thought they were too buzzy. However, after anyone has lived with a powerful Rotary engine for a while, the sound of a tuned Rotary immediately pricks the ears. Noise is going to be one of the by-products of a powerful electric engine - witness electric trains like the TGV for that - so I can see the high-powered whine becoming the mark of a high-powered electric, and young enthusiasts will come up with kits to increase the sound, just as they have with V8's, Rotaries, Turbos and every other type of engine tech.
brc 16y ago
There's no doubt the Roadster changed things, probably forever, even if they disappear within a few years (or get swallowed up into something bigger). Within 12 months of the Roadster actually being sold, both Audi and Mercedes showed all-electric sports car concepts. Neither had ever mentioned such a thing beforehand. A few manufacturers were dabbling with hybrid tech in some of their cars, but an all-electric sports car was not on the radar at all. Now every motor show has a major manufacturer either displaying an all-electric or hybrid-drive system. The gas turbine hybrid Jag was an awesome concept car. It's just great to see new thinking, and I give Tesla the credit for kicking the baggage of electric cars to the kerb. Building a sports car first was inspired just for the PR value. BMW and Mercedes are scrambling to catch up with their electric tech. Being the engineering giants that both companies are, they will arrive later to the party, but what they produce will be properly good. I've read up on some of the tech BMW is researching for electric vehicles, and it's very promising. I believe the first models will be out in 2013, albeit in a small car format rather than a sports car. I guess we'll find out.
hugh3 16y ago
I think it's more to do with vapourware-wariness. Any company which comes out promising to revolutionise the way we do everything will (and should) always encounter a bunch of skepticism. They have, after all, been promising big things for many years now, and so far delivered nothing other than an overpriced sports car for the rich and impractical. They've also been soaking up a lot of government subsidies at all levels to produce their rich-bastard sports car, which ought to bother folks.
- fossuser 16y ago
  Good point with the vapourware-wariness, but as far as government subsidies go electric vehicles is where some money should be going. Especially when compared to the billions given to companies like GM who were either unable or unwilling to adapt even when facing bankruptcy

SkyMarshal 16y ago

John Gabriel's Greater Internet Dickwad Theory. :(

archangel_one 16y ago

That may be a sign that it is disruptive technology. If it weren't, there wouldn't be that level of vitriol. The only times you see it aimed at other manufacturers is if they do something genuinely awful, or sometimes in better humour if there's a significant rivalry (Subaru/Mitsi, Holden/Ford etc). I guess that shows that IT doesn't have a monopoly on morons with OS fanboys :)

anthonycerra 16y ago

The argument against electric cars that bothers me the most is this "Try driving across the country with it." Try driving an internal combustion engine car across the country without an infrastructure to support it. See how far you get. Hell, even with gas stations everywhere today you don't want to be caught on I-80 in Utah with a low tank. There are some stretches of road where the next station isn't for 100 miles.

hugh3 16y ago
What's your point? There is an infrastructure to support internal combustion engines. There isn't one to support cross-country trips in electric cars, and building one would be very hard to impossible... at least unless someone makes one powered by ultracapacitors.
- anthonycerra 16y ago
  First, I should be clear in saying that it bothers me when people brush off electric cars completely with that one argument. My questions for you: Why is it "impossible" to develop a new infrastructure? Can you provide any data to support that? I'm always interested to know why people think "because it doesn't exist, it can't exist". And to answer your question, here are my points: 1) When automobiles were first adopted it was unlikely that people were taking long trips. The infrastructure developed over time. Give these people some time to develop the new infrastructure. 2) That common argument neglects to recognize I can charge an electric car in my garage every night. I don't need charging/battery swapping stations everywhere. (Though, I concede, people in apartments would) 3) The above point is particularly significant when you realize that the commute for millions of people everyday is only a few miles. Are electric cars going to solve everyone's problems today? No. Are they poised to solve the problems for many people soon? Absolutely.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    I'm always interested to know why people think "because it doesn't exist, it can't exist". Because batteries take hours to charge, rather than minutes, it makes long trips awfully impractical. That's just plain ol' chemistry getting in the way, absent some huge advance in technology. Some have suggested hot-swappable battery packs, but bearing in mind that battery packs weigh hundreds of kilos and degrade over time (meaning you can never be sure you're not going to get a shitty one) then it makes life tricky. Personally I think the Chevy Volt has the right idea: combine fully-electric behaviour for short trips with the capability to do long trips by burning fuel. I'd definitely consider buying something with that kind of tech once it becomes available in a wider variety of cars.