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Does anyone know if it's possible to start from a pure Catalina installation of macOS and install a partition with Mojave? For the first time in forever I won't

Does anyone know if it's possible to start from a pure Catalina installation of macOS and install a partition with Mojave? For the first time in forever I won't update macOS on my computer so that I can keep using a few 32-bit app, including http://www.halomd.net/ http://www.halomd.net/.

zitterbewegung 7y ago
Probably would be a better idea to run Mojave in a VM like virtual box.
- iscrewyou 7y ago
  OSX VMs are so slowwww in a virtual environment though. I’ve tried doing it several times in parallels and they just crawl. Unless I’m doing something wrong.
  - simcop2387 7y ago
    My experience and knowledge about it has said that this is because of the reliance of OSX on GPU hardware. That means it won't ever perform well on any kind of software rendering. Some kind of GPU passthrough or sharing is needed to make it work acceptably.
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      It's got to be more complicated than that. I've used Parallels to run complex DX10 games such as a Tomb Raider 2013. I'm not sure what wizardry they use to make that happen, but it works really well. Parallels is, perhaps not coincidentally, not as terrible at running macOS as some other solutions, but it's still fairly poor.
      - xoa 7y ago
        >It's got to be more complicated than that. It's not. I've run macOS under a hypervisor with GPU passthrough and it's essentially as fast as on metal (I think you can see a single digit percentage difference in benchmarks). I don't think anyone has a soft 3D driver though for macOS guests. Parallels and VMware have both put a lot of work into getting some level of soft VM based 3D acceleration working for Windows guests, presumably because that's where the demand is. At the same time macOS has been built heavily around GPU for everything for a very long time now, initially as a way to improve even basic interface smoothness in Aqua back in the day. So it's a dog in pure software on a VM. It really needs a GPU. FWIW, in the past VMware did officially have Mac Pros on the hardware compatibility list for ESXi (up to 5.5 I think? maybe the trashcan lasted longer). And that in turn would be legit for running a Mac guest. I've read you can sort of get it to work on other Macs like the Mini, though secure boot must be disabled and the T2 causes other issues. Otherwise you need to patch it, or go with KVM or some other alternative.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - selectodude 7y ago
        It’s some sort of crazy hack mess that converts calls from DirectX to Vulkan, and then from Vulkan to Metal.
  - arthurfm 7y ago
    With VMware Fusion, if you install their VMware Tools (after disabling SIP [1]), macOS is much more usable in a VM. [1] https://notebook.yasithab.com/macos/disable-sip-in-macos-vm-under-vmware-workstation-fusion https://notebook.yasithab.com/macos/disable-sip-in-macos-vm-...
- AlexeyBrin 7y ago
  Unless you have a very powerful host system running macOS in a VM is painfully slow. On a 2019 MacBook Air with 16GB or RAM running a virtualized macOS is crawling to render the Finder window.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    Parallels specifically is much better than e.g. Virtualbox in my experience. Still not really pleasant—there's a lot of latency for some reason, unless you directly pass through the mouse as a USB device—but usable enough. I still think I'd rather dual boot though.
  - kitsunesoba 7y ago
    The biggest problem with virtualizing macOS is that it’s built assuming that a half competent GPU is available, meaning that its software rasterizer is dog slow which is a big problem because no VM simulates a GPU that macOS supports. I’ve heard things about getting GPU passthrough working to fix this but I’ve not tried that myself.
  - userbinator 7y ago
    A few months ago I tried a Mojave and a few older versions of macOS in VirtualBox on a 2013 Thinkpad (Hackintosh) and had no problems with booting nor basic things like Finder and other operations with the GUI. I didn't try more graphics-intensive apps, however, but it was actually surprisingly fast and easy to install from an ISO created using the official source download, minus the workaround I needed for EFI booting from APFS. Building an app with Xcode (the reason for doing all this in the first place) also worked decently.
- SloopJon 7y ago
  Somewhat related: if I tracked down a copy of Snow Leopard Server and ran it in a VM, would I be able to run old PowerPC apps using Rosetta?
  - dreamcompiler 7y ago
    Yes.
  - dkonofalski 7y ago
    Did Snow Leopard still bundle Rosetta with the install? I thought that Snow Leopard still required a download of Rosetta that likely wouldn't be available now...
  - mrpippy 7y ago
    Yes. CodeWarrior flies on modern hardware, even with the CPU being emulated.
AlexeyBrin 7y ago
You can install macOS (this also works for Catalina) on an external hard drive (I recommend an SSD if possible). This runs at native speed and you can use it to test/try anything without touching the internal disk.
- dahx4Eev 7y ago
  Yes this works! Highly recommended. I’ve installed it on an Intel 660p with a USB3 1GBps enclosure.
- pazimzadeh 7y ago
  Does the SSD drive need a separate power source when booting from it or can it run on Thunderbolt 3?
  - AlexeyBrin 7y ago
    No separate power source, I've used a portable Samsung Passport 250/500 GB external SSD. Something like this https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Portable-MU-PA250B-AM-Alluring/dp/B073H552FK/ https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Portable-MU-PA250B-AM-Allurin... is similar with what I've used.
js2 7y ago
Should be possible: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208891 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208891 I've done this to install a beta, but not to try to install an older macOS version from a newer release. If for some reason, the Mojave installer won't launch from Catalina, then you could create a bootable Mojave installer: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372
anaisbetts 7y ago
Ah dude no problem, you can actually play Halo on Xbox now
miles 7y ago
There’s something even better now, thanks to APFS: Installing macOS on a separate APFS volume https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208891 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208891 “APFS makes it easier than ever to switch between versions of macOS, including a beta (prerelease) version of macOS.”
- pram 7y ago
  Very nice, good find!
splatcollision 7y ago
Greetings to halo MD fans! Unfortunately the original Mac Halo binary that MD wraps is itself 32 bit, but some hope lies in a project called wineskin. Look up the Porting Team discord or atomical’s Halo MD discord for some discussion...

zitterbewegung 7y ago

Probably would be a better idea to run Mojave in a VM like virtual box.

iscrewyou 7y ago
OSX VMs are so slowwww in a virtual environment though. I’ve tried doing it several times in parallels and they just crawl. Unless I’m doing something wrong.
- simcop2387 7y ago
  My experience and knowledge about it has said that this is because of the reliance of OSX on GPU hardware. That means it won't ever perform well on any kind of software rendering. Some kind of GPU passthrough or sharing is needed to make it work acceptably.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    It's got to be more complicated than that. I've used Parallels to run complex DX10 games such as a Tomb Raider 2013. I'm not sure what wizardry they use to make that happen, but it works really well. Parallels is, perhaps not coincidentally, not as terrible at running macOS as some other solutions, but it's still fairly poor.
    - xoa 7y ago
      >It's got to be more complicated than that. It's not. I've run macOS under a hypervisor with GPU passthrough and it's essentially as fast as on metal (I think you can see a single digit percentage difference in benchmarks). I don't think anyone has a soft 3D driver though for macOS guests. Parallels and VMware have both put a lot of work into getting some level of soft VM based 3D acceleration working for Windows guests, presumably because that's where the demand is. At the same time macOS has been built heavily around GPU for everything for a very long time now, initially as a way to improve even basic interface smoothness in Aqua back in the day. So it's a dog in pure software on a VM. It really needs a GPU. FWIW, in the past VMware did officially have Mac Pros on the hardware compatibility list for ESXi (up to 5.5 I think? maybe the trashcan lasted longer). And that in turn would be legit for running a Mac guest. I've read you can sort of get it to work on other Macs like the Mini, though secure boot must be disabled and the T2 causes other issues. Otherwise you need to patch it, or go with KVM or some other alternative.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - selectodude 7y ago
      It’s some sort of crazy hack mess that converts calls from DirectX to Vulkan, and then from Vulkan to Metal.
- arthurfm 7y ago
  With VMware Fusion, if you install their VMware Tools (after disabling SIP [1]), macOS is much more usable in a VM. [1] https://notebook.yasithab.com/macos/disable-sip-in-macos-vm-under-vmware-workstation-fusion https://notebook.yasithab.com/macos/disable-sip-in-macos-vm-...
AlexeyBrin 7y ago
Unless you have a very powerful host system running macOS in a VM is painfully slow. On a 2019 MacBook Air with 16GB or RAM running a virtualized macOS is crawling to render the Finder window.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  Parallels specifically is much better than e.g. Virtualbox in my experience. Still not really pleasant—there's a lot of latency for some reason, unless you directly pass through the mouse as a USB device—but usable enough. I still think I'd rather dual boot though.
- kitsunesoba 7y ago
  The biggest problem with virtualizing macOS is that it’s built assuming that a half competent GPU is available, meaning that its software rasterizer is dog slow which is a big problem because no VM simulates a GPU that macOS supports. I’ve heard things about getting GPU passthrough working to fix this but I’ve not tried that myself.
- userbinator 7y ago
  A few months ago I tried a Mojave and a few older versions of macOS in VirtualBox on a 2013 Thinkpad (Hackintosh) and had no problems with booting nor basic things like Finder and other operations with the GUI. I didn't try more graphics-intensive apps, however, but it was actually surprisingly fast and easy to install from an ISO created using the official source download, minus the workaround I needed for EFI booting from APFS. Building an app with Xcode (the reason for doing all this in the first place) also worked decently.
SloopJon 7y ago
Somewhat related: if I tracked down a copy of Snow Leopard Server and ran it in a VM, would I be able to run old PowerPC apps using Rosetta?
- dreamcompiler 7y ago
  Yes.
- dkonofalski 7y ago
  Did Snow Leopard still bundle Rosetta with the install? I thought that Snow Leopard still required a download of Rosetta that likely wouldn't be available now...
- mrpippy 7y ago
  Yes. CodeWarrior flies on modern hardware, even with the CPU being emulated.

AlexeyBrin 7y ago

You can install macOS (this also works for Catalina) on an external hard drive (I recommend an SSD if possible). This runs at native speed and you can use it to test/try anything without touching the internal disk.

dahx4Eev 7y ago
Yes this works! Highly recommended. I’ve installed it on an Intel 660p with a USB3 1GBps enclosure.
pazimzadeh 7y ago
Does the SSD drive need a separate power source when booting from it or can it run on Thunderbolt 3?
- AlexeyBrin 7y ago
  No separate power source, I've used a portable Samsung Passport 250/500 GB external SSD. Something like this https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Portable-MU-PA250B-AM-Alluring/dp/B073H552FK/ https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Portable-MU-PA250B-AM-Allurin... is similar with what I've used.

js2 7y ago

Should be possible: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208891 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208891 I've done this to install a beta, but not to try to install an older macOS version from a newer release. If for some reason, the Mojave installer won't launch from Catalina, then you could create a bootable Mojave installer: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

anaisbetts 7y ago

Ah dude no problem, you can actually play Halo on Xbox now

miles 7y ago

There’s something even better now, thanks to APFS: Installing macOS on a separate APFS volume https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208891 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208891 “APFS makes it easier than ever to switch between versions of macOS, including a beta (prerelease) version of macOS.”

pram 7y ago
Very nice, good find!

splatcollision 7y ago

Greetings to halo MD fans! Unfortunately the original Mac Halo binary that MD wraps is itself 32 bit, but some hope lies in a project called wineskin. Look up the Porting Team discord or atomical’s Halo MD discord for some discussion...