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Satellites That Can Pinpoint Methane and Carbon Dioxide Leaks (2018)

112 points by lil-scamp 7y ago

stretchwithme 7y ago
Pretty important, as methane has 30 times the warming effect that carbon dioxide does.
mogadsheu 7y ago
We looked at GHGSat back in 2016, really interesting tech and solid approach, with more limitations than expected (only land-based sites can be measured). They ultimate got investment from a collaborative vehicle. I believe they deserve to exist in this world, though I do still wonder if their business model is self-sustaining.
mturmon 7y ago
Here's an example of some of the early research on methane detection from space (using SCIAMACHY, which has enough sensitivity to detect but not to localize well): https://www.pnas.org/content/113/35/9734 https://www.pnas.org/content/113/35/9734 As documented in the paper, these space-based observations were later followed up by very high-spatial-resolution (1-3 m) airborne spectroscopic observations that revealed hundreds of sources in the Four Corners region of the US. The linked paper has a nice video of such a leak. The rates follow a very heavy-tailed distribution, meaning that a few big leaks dominate the total, at least for now. There are also complex time-dependent signatures associated with leaks depending on the source - gas pipelines vs. suboptimally-operated landfills. There's room in the observing system for ground, air, and space-based measurements.
mistrial9 7y ago
.. must be related to this active investigation: https://www.edf.org/climate/methane-studies https://www.edf.org/climate/methane-studies
olivermarks 7y ago
'“The days are coming when we will have satellites in the sky that can monitor any facility on this planet,” said Rob Jackson, who heads Stanford University’s Earth system science department. “I’m quite excited about that. The environmental community will be able to watchdog any facility on Earth. I think everyone will benefit.”' This is a potential taxation and fining powerhouse. Penalty payments for 'leaking' carbon dioxide will be mana from heaven for the UN IPCC carbon credits lobbyists.
- mturmon 7y ago
  It's just closing the loop on negative externalities, right?
- oska 7y ago
  I understand you're taking a critical stance but I see pollution taxes as one of the best forms of taxation, as they 1) obviously cut down on pollution and 2) increase efficiency and productivity. Obviously who receives the taxes and how they are distributed is a very big and important question. But that question does not itself invalidate the idea of taxation of pollution.
  - olivermarks 7y ago
    The trillion [insert currency denomination here] question is what 'pollution' is.
    - adrianN 7y ago
      I'm pretty sure that every sensible person agrees that GHGs are pollution. That question is settled for at least thirty years now.
    - ericd 7y ago
      How about any emission into the air/water/ground that changes the composition of the medium you're emitting into?
      - 7y ago
m463 7y ago
Aren't there a lot of natural leaks? I wouldn't be surprised if man-made leaks are dwarfed by natural ones Volcanos and forest fires, "natural" gas leaks and more.
- jazzyjackson 7y ago
  You don't give human activity enough credit ! "According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world’s volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide." https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcanoes-or-humans/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcan...
  - m463 7y ago
    thank you, that was very informative.
yellowapple 7y ago
This could make a solid plot for a Tom-Clancy-style thriller novel. Imagine a group of ecoterrorists that hijacks these satellites and some orbital bombardment satellites and starts dropping bombs on the carbon "leaks". And then a certain Refraction Numeral counterterrorist group gets sent in to stop them. All interspersed with heaps of exposition around various organizations and military technologies that may or may not have any basis in reality.
- kaybe 7y ago
  It seems that flying drones into carbon infrastructure is effective too.
bluefield 7y ago
Our startup is on track to deploy high precision methane monitoring microsatellites (http://bluefield.co http://bluefield.co). We've already received investments from Silicon Valley VCs, and signed contracts with the world's largest oil & gas companies. Please get in touch if you'd like to join us in creating the "breathing monitor" of our planet! y.ariel@bluefield.co
- kaybe 7y ago
  Hi, some short questions: - What's your spectral resolution? (I'm assuming you're using spectrometers and not filters?) - Is this a scanning setup? - What is your minimum spatial and temporal resolution and what is the detection limit? - What do you consider an 'optically rich image'?

112 points by lil-scamp 7y ago

Pretty important, as methane has 30 times the warming effect that carbon dioxide does.

We looked at GHGSat back in 2016, really interesting tech and solid approach, with more limitations than expected (only land-based sites can be measured). They ultimate got investment from a collaborative vehicle. I believe they deserve to exist in this world, though I do still wonder if their business model is self-sustaining.

mturmon 7y ago

Here's an example of some of the early research on methane detection from space (using SCIAMACHY, which has enough sensitivity to detect but not to localize well): https://www.pnas.org/content/113/35/9734 https://www.pnas.org/content/113/35/9734 As documented in the paper, these space-based observations were later followed up by very high-spatial-resolution (1-3 m) airborne spectroscopic observations that revealed hundreds of sources in the Four Corners region of the US. The linked paper has a nice video of such a leak. The rates follow a very heavy-tailed distribution, meaning that a few big leaks dominate the total, at least for now. There are also complex time-dependent signatures associated with leaks depending on the source - gas pipelines vs. suboptimally-operated landfills. There's room in the observing system for ground, air, and space-based measurements.

mistrial9 7y ago

.. must be related to this active investigation: https://www.edf.org/climate/methane-studies https://www.edf.org/climate/methane-studies

olivermarks 7y ago

'“The days are coming when we will have satellites in the sky that can monitor any facility on this planet,” said Rob Jackson, who heads Stanford University’s Earth system science department. “I’m quite excited about that. The environmental community will be able to watchdog any facility on Earth. I think everyone will benefit.”' This is a potential taxation and fining powerhouse. Penalty payments for 'leaking' carbon dioxide will be mana from heaven for the UN IPCC carbon credits lobbyists.

mturmon 7y ago
It's just closing the loop on negative externalities, right?
oska 7y ago
I understand you're taking a critical stance but I see pollution taxes as one of the best forms of taxation, as they 1) obviously cut down on pollution and 2) increase efficiency and productivity. Obviously who receives the taxes and how they are distributed is a very big and important question. But that question does not itself invalidate the idea of taxation of pollution.
- olivermarks 7y ago
  The trillion [insert currency denomination here] question is what 'pollution' is.
  - adrianN 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure that every sensible person agrees that GHGs are pollution. That question is settled for at least thirty years now.
  - ericd 7y ago
    How about any emission into the air/water/ground that changes the composition of the medium you're emitting into?
    - 7y ago

m463 7y ago

Aren't there a lot of natural leaks? I wouldn't be surprised if man-made leaks are dwarfed by natural ones Volcanos and forest fires, "natural" gas leaks and more.

jazzyjackson 7y ago
You don't give human activity enough credit ! "According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world’s volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide." https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcanoes-or-humans/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcan...
- m463 7y ago
  thank you, that was very informative.

yellowapple 7y ago

This could make a solid plot for a Tom-Clancy-style thriller novel. Imagine a group of ecoterrorists that hijacks these satellites and some orbital bombardment satellites and starts dropping bombs on the carbon "leaks". And then a certain Refraction Numeral counterterrorist group gets sent in to stop them. All interspersed with heaps of exposition around various organizations and military technologies that may or may not have any basis in reality.

kaybe 7y ago
It seems that flying drones into carbon infrastructure is effective too.

bluefield 7y ago

Our startup is on track to deploy high precision methane monitoring microsatellites (http://bluefield.co http://bluefield.co). We've already received investments from Silicon Valley VCs, and signed contracts with the world's largest oil & gas companies. Please get in touch if you'd like to join us in creating the "breathing monitor" of our planet! y.ariel@bluefield.co

kaybe 7y ago
Hi, some short questions: - What's your spectral resolution? (I'm assuming you're using spectrometers and not filters?) - Is this a scanning setup? - What is your minimum spatial and temporal resolution and what is the detection limit? - What do you consider an 'optically rich image'?