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So, let me see if I understand this correctly: this is supposed to run on z80-based computers after an armageddon comes and all the other "modern" computers are

So, let me see if I understand this correctly: this is supposed to run on z80-based computers after an armageddon comes and all the other "modern" computers are out of business, so people start building them by scavenging parts. Ok. So, first of all, how are you supposed to download this thing onto your homebrew computer, given that internet will most likely be down? "But if the collapse magnitude is right, then this project will change the course of our history, which makes it worth trying." Mmmh, I think the author is a bit on the hyperbolic side here. I'm quite sure that anyone that can design & assemble a z80 computer can quite comfortably code some basic utilities by himself just fine. All the others won't care a bit about your OS. Sorry if I sounded harsh, but I actually was.

blfr 7y ago
You're supposed to download it now and keep around. Just like preppers do with MREs and ammunition.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- AtlasBarfed 7y ago
  I said this further up the thread, but I'd rather have a raspberry pi, some screen cribbed from a smartphone, and some flash sticks. Why plan for less than the raspberry pi level?
  - maze-le 7y ago
    Because the pi might be needed for more demanding workloads (networks, routing, sdr radio system). With this solution you can build low-tech control systems and programmable switches with a bit of logic where a raspi would be overkill. But the doomsday scenarios aside, this is super useful as an educational device. It can teach people what computers actually are and how they operate on the lowest possible level.
    - MetalGuru 7y ago
      This is what excites me about this project. Another commenter posted the NandToTetris course, which is along the same lines. Computers/software are so complicated now, so much understanding gets lost in the upper levels of abstraction. Everything just seems like black box magic.
  - jotm 7y ago
    Or you know, a laptop. I've got like 6 of them piling up dust and all they need is 19V. The oldest from 2008, the batteries on 3 have sadly failed being unused, everything else still works. I've also got 2 desktops from 2003ish (Athlon64 and Pentium III), they probably work, too, although they're stored in a garage (along with some other stuff like VCRs and CRT displays). Not to mention routers old and new, all running Linux. Yeah, why plan for less? All I need to do is scavenge around my property :D Though a garden, livestock and a greenhouse will be a much higher priority. No one needs any sort of computing when they can't eat.
    - naasking 7y ago
      > Or you know, a laptop. I've got like 6 of them piling up dust and all they need is 19V Mechanical parts fail first. The keyboards on those laptops will be gone after a few years of use. The USB ports won't last much longer. How long will the thermal paste and internal fans last? The point of the z80 is that they're cheap and relatively easy to build from scavenged parts.
      - jotm 7y ago
        Not sure where you scavenge parts for a z80, I think it's much easier to scavenge parts for PCs. Plus, laptops are way more fixable than you seem to think, with simple soldering. Fans can be kept going for years with grease. External keyboards are ubiquitous. It's strange how people here bang on about RPi when a simple laptop is even more flexible. And I'm also thinking more of a "repository of knowledge" use, not just simple controllers.
        naasking 7y ago
        > Not sure where you scavenge parts for a z80, TI calculators, microcontrollers, and more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_Z80#Embedded_systems_and_consumer_electronics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_Z80#Embedded_systems_and... > I think it's much easier to scavenge parts for PCs. Plus, laptops are way more fixable than you seem to think, with simple soldering. Fans can be kept going for years with grease. Collapse OS is talking about timelines of a century or more. Non-mechanical computers are the only ones that will last that long without the supporting infrastructure.
badsectoracula 7y ago
It may take a while but you could go Altair-style, by making a computer that is programmed through physical switches and then go and input every byte one-by-one. Though some automation would help here (AFAIK some people used a dotted paper tape reader and only entered the tape loader code by hand and the rest of their programs were loaded via the tape).
flohofwoe 7y ago
It's just a few thousand Z80 instructions in assembly notation. You can print it on paper, store the listings somewhere safe and type the code in by hand just like in the old days.
- xmprt 7y ago
  Why is that possible in this fictional reality but stockpiling an RPi isn't?
  - pstuart 7y ago
    Because it doesn't fit the given narrative: it's all about scavenging/recycling. Your reality does make better sense, but doesn't make a good story.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    There are vastly more Z80's in circulation that Raspberry Pis.
    - yellowapple 7y ago
      Also, in a worse-case scenario, it's much easier to build a Z80 by hand from individual transistors and/or logic gates¹ (which would still be absurdly difficult, but not impossible) than any ARM CPU (including the ones in any generation of RPi). In a slightly-less-than-worse-case scenario, it's much easier to build a Z80-based computer by hand (i.e. with a Z80 you pulled off some other piece of hardware) than your average ARM-based computer (including any RPi). ¹ "logic gates" not necessarily being transistor-based, either; one could take a cue from the guy building a 32-bit RISC-V machine with vacuum tubes: https://www.ludd.ltu.se/~ragge/vtc/ https://www.ludd.ltu.se/~ragge/vtc/
      - LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago
        Uhm.... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#Acorn_RISC_Machine:_ARM2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#Acorn_RISC_Ma... says about 30.000 gates, which is 10.000 less than Motorola 68000 and arguably faster. [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarch at least made us Amiga and AtariST geeks envious. Furthermore there is 'Microsequencer' like described there: [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsequencer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsequencer and following up from there to for example [4] http://www.microcorelabs.com/mcl65.html http://www.microcorelabs.com/mcl65.html which is a 6502 softcore with microsequencing applied Alas... There are many options to choose from according to the available technology, tools & knowledge. One does not have to make an exact copy of something which made sense for arbitrary reasons, which don't necessarily apply when doing it from scratch under different circumstances.
ocdtrekkie 7y ago
He specifically speaks of a "distribution" phase as imminent collapse seems apparent, before "blackout". So everyone who knows about it would hypothetically get a copy, and perhaps begin stockpiling some relevant hardware. (SD cards seem like a good commodity to stockpile here, as he supports them, but they're likely incredibly hard to manufacture post-collapse.)
big_chungus 7y ago
There are a very large number of Z80s around today and in-use. They are dirt-cheap and just right for many embedded applications. More importantly, they're simple enough to grok and to wire by hand; so yeah, were I stripping components for a make-shift computer in a post-apocalyptic world, I might just go for a Z80.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
whywhywhywhy 7y ago
It's just a high effort apocalypse larp.

blfr 7y ago

You're supposed to download it now and keep around. Just like preppers do with MREs and ammunition.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
AtlasBarfed 7y ago
I said this further up the thread, but I'd rather have a raspberry pi, some screen cribbed from a smartphone, and some flash sticks. Why plan for less than the raspberry pi level?
- maze-le 7y ago
  Because the pi might be needed for more demanding workloads (networks, routing, sdr radio system). With this solution you can build low-tech control systems and programmable switches with a bit of logic where a raspi would be overkill. But the doomsday scenarios aside, this is super useful as an educational device. It can teach people what computers actually are and how they operate on the lowest possible level.
  - MetalGuru 7y ago
    This is what excites me about this project. Another commenter posted the NandToTetris course, which is along the same lines. Computers/software are so complicated now, so much understanding gets lost in the upper levels of abstraction. Everything just seems like black box magic.
- jotm 7y ago
  Or you know, a laptop. I've got like 6 of them piling up dust and all they need is 19V. The oldest from 2008, the batteries on 3 have sadly failed being unused, everything else still works. I've also got 2 desktops from 2003ish (Athlon64 and Pentium III), they probably work, too, although they're stored in a garage (along with some other stuff like VCRs and CRT displays). Not to mention routers old and new, all running Linux. Yeah, why plan for less? All I need to do is scavenge around my property :D Though a garden, livestock and a greenhouse will be a much higher priority. No one needs any sort of computing when they can't eat.
  - naasking 7y ago
    > Or you know, a laptop. I've got like 6 of them piling up dust and all they need is 19V Mechanical parts fail first. The keyboards on those laptops will be gone after a few years of use. The USB ports won't last much longer. How long will the thermal paste and internal fans last? The point of the z80 is that they're cheap and relatively easy to build from scavenged parts.
    - jotm 7y ago
      Not sure where you scavenge parts for a z80, I think it's much easier to scavenge parts for PCs. Plus, laptops are way more fixable than you seem to think, with simple soldering. Fans can be kept going for years with grease. External keyboards are ubiquitous. It's strange how people here bang on about RPi when a simple laptop is even more flexible. And I'm also thinking more of a "repository of knowledge" use, not just simple controllers.
      - naasking 7y ago
        > Not sure where you scavenge parts for a z80, TI calculators, microcontrollers, and more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_Z80#Embedded_systems_and_consumer_electronics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_Z80#Embedded_systems_and... > I think it's much easier to scavenge parts for PCs. Plus, laptops are way more fixable than you seem to think, with simple soldering. Fans can be kept going for years with grease. Collapse OS is talking about timelines of a century or more. Non-mechanical computers are the only ones that will last that long without the supporting infrastructure.

badsectoracula 7y ago

It may take a while but you could go Altair-style, by making a computer that is programmed through physical switches and then go and input every byte one-by-one. Though some automation would help here (AFAIK some people used a dotted paper tape reader and only entered the tape loader code by hand and the rest of their programs were loaded via the tape).

flohofwoe 7y ago

It's just a few thousand Z80 instructions in assembly notation. You can print it on paper, store the listings somewhere safe and type the code in by hand just like in the old days.

xmprt 7y ago
Why is that possible in this fictional reality but stockpiling an RPi isn't?
- pstuart 7y ago
  Because it doesn't fit the given narrative: it's all about scavenging/recycling. Your reality does make better sense, but doesn't make a good story.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  There are vastly more Z80's in circulation that Raspberry Pis.
  - yellowapple 7y ago
    Also, in a worse-case scenario, it's much easier to build a Z80 by hand from individual transistors and/or logic gates¹ (which would still be absurdly difficult, but not impossible) than any ARM CPU (including the ones in any generation of RPi). In a slightly-less-than-worse-case scenario, it's much easier to build a Z80-based computer by hand (i.e. with a Z80 you pulled off some other piece of hardware) than your average ARM-based computer (including any RPi). ¹ "logic gates" not necessarily being transistor-based, either; one could take a cue from the guy building a 32-bit RISC-V machine with vacuum tubes: https://www.ludd.ltu.se/~ragge/vtc/ https://www.ludd.ltu.se/~ragge/vtc/
    - LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago
      Uhm.... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#Acorn_RISC_Machine:_ARM2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#Acorn_RISC_Ma... says about 30.000 gates, which is 10.000 less than Motorola 68000 and arguably faster. [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarch at least made us Amiga and AtariST geeks envious. Furthermore there is 'Microsequencer' like described there: [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsequencer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsequencer and following up from there to for example [4] http://www.microcorelabs.com/mcl65.html http://www.microcorelabs.com/mcl65.html which is a 6502 softcore with microsequencing applied Alas... There are many options to choose from according to the available technology, tools & knowledge. One does not have to make an exact copy of something which made sense for arbitrary reasons, which don't necessarily apply when doing it from scratch under different circumstances.

ocdtrekkie 7y ago

He specifically speaks of a "distribution" phase as imminent collapse seems apparent, before "blackout". So everyone who knows about it would hypothetically get a copy, and perhaps begin stockpiling some relevant hardware. (SD cards seem like a good commodity to stockpile here, as he supports them, but they're likely incredibly hard to manufacture post-collapse.)

big_chungus 7y ago

There are a very large number of Z80s around today and in-use. They are dirt-cheap and just right for many embedded applications. More importantly, they're simple enough to grok and to wire by hand; so yeah, were I stripping components for a make-shift computer in a post-apocalyptic world, I might just go for a Z80.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

whywhywhywhy 7y ago

It's just a high effort apocalypse larp.