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I can't help but being sad for the official end of the Inuktitut syllabic: it was such a unique system or writing, and it seemed to fit Inuit languages well. U

I can't help but being sad for the official end of the Inuktitut syllabic: it was such a unique system or writing, and it seemed to fit Inuit languages well. Unicode can handle a zillion characters, and I don't remember having problems with missing fonts in any of my devices for at least half a decade. If the problem is people talking in English on their cellphones because of lack of input support, couldn't the government of Nunavut work in making iOS/Android keyboards with a good syllabic input method?

tasogare 7y ago
I feel a bit sad too. I looked at it last week, it was a really nicely designed syllabic alphabet and well suited to the phonology of the language. I planned to learn it this week for the fun. I don’t think developing a keyboard for it is too difficult. Actually I could try to do it myself. The problem is probably more about making users install it when it’s not preinstalled on the device and thus requires downloading an application. Heck, even languages such as Chinese or Japanese requires a (first party) download on Android. I found iOS handles better multilingual input and is less confusing to get started with new keyboards.
- knolax 7y ago
  > I don’t think developing a keyboard for it is too difficult. I've made IBus input methods for conlangs before and it's literally as simple as making a plaintext table of physical keys and corresponding characters. I can't imagine it'd be any more difficult on IOS or Android. Despite this I can't find any Inuktitut keyboards on the Play Store.
  - tasogare 7y ago
    Well it’s depends. On desktop OS plain text file method has limitations, for example on macOS it may not work if the name is too long and it ignores leading 0 for conversion which is super annoying. Then there are third party middleware like Open Vanilla which are more customizable and finally there is the solution of using native frameworks which is hellish. On mobile OS, at least on iOS, developing a keyboard means also creating the layout keyboard and managing its state, so it’s a bit more work than a single mapping text file. > I can’t find any Inuktitut keyboards on the play Store I found my next side project haha. I need one for another app I planned to do.
    - yorwba 7y ago
      > I found my next side project haha. I need one for another app I planned to do. You might want to base it on https://anysoftkeyboard.github.io/ https://anysoftkeyboard.github.io/
- robocat 7y ago
  > The problem is probably more about making users install it when it’s not preinstalled Is there a keyboard HID for USB/Bluetooth that allows for Unicode characters to be sent rather than key codes? Android has a pretty good keyboard API (e.g. Chrome on Android can't get passed keycodes because of how IME are designed). However I'm guessing Windows apps need key codes, so maybe not possible.
__rvnykk 7y ago
There is a keyboard for phones called FirstVoices, it's pretty nice. I've never had an issue displaying Syllabics on my phone, either There are a lot of converters (I'm making another one, granted it's for Ojibwe / Cree), but no ways to natively type them on an actual computer easily, as far as I know
est31 7y ago
It's not impossible to do this. In Norway, for the Sami minority, there is a project for precisely such tools: http://divvun.no/ http://divvun.no/
knolax 7y ago
We're looking at this from the perspective of people who understand computers. From the point of view of the bureaucrats who make thesse decisions computers are some arcane device that can. only display English. See for example the braindead orthographic reforms being pushed by the Turkmenistan government. Overhauling your entire written orthography just to be ASCII compatible! When these types of people see code they assume that they're looking at plain English and end up thinking that the language is somehow a fundamental part of how computers work.
- Pxtl 7y ago
  Well, it's hard to deny that life is easier for people using English-compatible writing systems. No trouble with physical keyboards, anglophones can take a stab at pronouncing things, and a lot of older computer technology predates modern unicode and nobody seems to be in a rush to replace it.
  - knolax 7y ago
    I'd have to disagree at least in the context of computers. > No trouble with physical keyboards I've seen comments on HN before about how certain characters used for programming aren't on keyboards with European layouts, supposedly creating a barrier for beginner programmers. In contrast, somebody using a keyboard for one of the CJK languages only needs to press shift to type all the characters in Basic Latin because the physical layouts are the same. > lot of older computer technology predates modern unicode and nobody seems to be in a rush to replace it. There are probably way more computers that only support Shift JIS than computers that only use ASCII. I heard that apparently lack of support for Unicode is still a problem in certain Japanese offices. I think the most dangerous position to be in is when your writing system is similar to but not exactly the same as English, in which case people begin to adopt a "close enough" attitude and accept the status quo, choosing instead to change their orthography in counterproductive ways to fit ephemeral technical requirements.
    - thaumasiotes 7y ago
      > somebody using a keyboard for one of the CJK languages only needs to press shift to type all the characters in Basic Latin because the physical layouts are the same The keyboards you buy in China (the C in CJK) are the same ones you'd buy in the US. They don't have their own. This makes sense, since character input is done in software; there is no way to map physical keys to the much much larger inventory of characters.
hsivonen 7y ago
GBoard on Android has Inuktitut syllabics support.
jjkaczor 7y ago
Also sad - I had no idea this was happening - heck, it was only last week that someone showed me how my name is spelled in syllabic.

tasogare 7y ago

I feel a bit sad too. I looked at it last week, it was a really nicely designed syllabic alphabet and well suited to the phonology of the language. I planned to learn it this week for the fun. I don’t think developing a keyboard for it is too difficult. Actually I could try to do it myself. The problem is probably more about making users install it when it’s not preinstalled on the device and thus requires downloading an application. Heck, even languages such as Chinese or Japanese requires a (first party) download on Android. I found iOS handles better multilingual input and is less confusing to get started with new keyboards.

knolax 7y ago
> I don’t think developing a keyboard for it is too difficult. I've made IBus input methods for conlangs before and it's literally as simple as making a plaintext table of physical keys and corresponding characters. I can't imagine it'd be any more difficult on IOS or Android. Despite this I can't find any Inuktitut keyboards on the Play Store.
- tasogare 7y ago
  Well it’s depends. On desktop OS plain text file method has limitations, for example on macOS it may not work if the name is too long and it ignores leading 0 for conversion which is super annoying. Then there are third party middleware like Open Vanilla which are more customizable and finally there is the solution of using native frameworks which is hellish. On mobile OS, at least on iOS, developing a keyboard means also creating the layout keyboard and managing its state, so it’s a bit more work than a single mapping text file. > I can’t find any Inuktitut keyboards on the play Store I found my next side project haha. I need one for another app I planned to do.
  - yorwba 7y ago
    > I found my next side project haha. I need one for another app I planned to do. You might want to base it on https://anysoftkeyboard.github.io/ https://anysoftkeyboard.github.io/
robocat 7y ago
> The problem is probably more about making users install it when it’s not preinstalled Is there a keyboard HID for USB/Bluetooth that allows for Unicode characters to be sent rather than key codes? Android has a pretty good keyboard API (e.g. Chrome on Android can't get passed keycodes because of how IME are designed). However I'm guessing Windows apps need key codes, so maybe not possible.

__rvnykk 7y ago

There is a keyboard for phones called FirstVoices, it's pretty nice. I've never had an issue displaying Syllabics on my phone, either There are a lot of converters (I'm making another one, granted it's for Ojibwe / Cree), but no ways to natively type them on an actual computer easily, as far as I know

est31 7y ago

It's not impossible to do this. In Norway, for the Sami minority, there is a project for precisely such tools: http://divvun.no/ http://divvun.no/

knolax 7y ago

We're looking at this from the perspective of people who understand computers. From the point of view of the bureaucrats who make thesse decisions computers are some arcane device that can. only display English. See for example the braindead orthographic reforms being pushed by the Turkmenistan government. Overhauling your entire written orthography just to be ASCII compatible! When these types of people see code they assume that they're looking at plain English and end up thinking that the language is somehow a fundamental part of how computers work.

Pxtl 7y ago
Well, it's hard to deny that life is easier for people using English-compatible writing systems. No trouble with physical keyboards, anglophones can take a stab at pronouncing things, and a lot of older computer technology predates modern unicode and nobody seems to be in a rush to replace it.
- knolax 7y ago
  I'd have to disagree at least in the context of computers. > No trouble with physical keyboards I've seen comments on HN before about how certain characters used for programming aren't on keyboards with European layouts, supposedly creating a barrier for beginner programmers. In contrast, somebody using a keyboard for one of the CJK languages only needs to press shift to type all the characters in Basic Latin because the physical layouts are the same. > lot of older computer technology predates modern unicode and nobody seems to be in a rush to replace it. There are probably way more computers that only support Shift JIS than computers that only use ASCII. I heard that apparently lack of support for Unicode is still a problem in certain Japanese offices. I think the most dangerous position to be in is when your writing system is similar to but not exactly the same as English, in which case people begin to adopt a "close enough" attitude and accept the status quo, choosing instead to change their orthography in counterproductive ways to fit ephemeral technical requirements.
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    > somebody using a keyboard for one of the CJK languages only needs to press shift to type all the characters in Basic Latin because the physical layouts are the same The keyboards you buy in China (the C in CJK) are the same ones you'd buy in the US. They don't have their own. This makes sense, since character input is done in software; there is no way to map physical keys to the much much larger inventory of characters.

hsivonen 7y ago

GBoard on Android has Inuktitut syllabics support.

jjkaczor 7y ago

Also sad - I had no idea this was happening - heck, it was only last week that someone showed me how my name is spelled in syllabic.