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Should people be required to own a Mac to release desktop software for the Mac? It is - or at least was - quite possible to make an application in Electron or J

Should people be required to own a Mac to release desktop software for the Mac? It is - or at least was - quite possible to make an application in Electron or Java or some other tool and release it cross-platform, having beta testers handle platforms specific testing. Now, Apple is making that impossible, which hurts developers who can't afford to go all-in on the mac platform.

filleduchaos 7y ago
I don't quite see how that at all follows, considering that notarization is something you can do from e.g. a CI server. I'm concerned at this point about if anybody that this supposedly effects has actually done any research at all on it.
- digitalsushi 7y ago
  The last place I worked at, it was socially forbidden to automate the digital signing process, such as in a CD pipeline. Now I'm curious to hear if we were being paranoid.
reaperducer 7y ago
Should people be required to own a Mac to release desktop software for the Mac? How do you test your software without the machine you're targeting? Every programmer knows that VMs aren't as good as the real thing.
- trothamel 7y ago
  You send it to a friend of yours that has a mac, but isn't a developer.
  - ryandrake 7y ago
    I hope you are being sarcastic! That’s a low quality assurance bar, even by a hobbyist’s standards. “My friend with one Mac running one OS version says it works, therefore I’m ready to release?”
    - trothamel 7y ago
      I'm not. When you're a high school student releasing your first computer game on a well-tested engine, that's a perfectly valid level of quality assurance. Not everyone can afford to keep around a lab full of macs running multiple versions of macOS.
      - reaperducer 7y ago
        No one says you need a bunch of Macs. People are saying that you need one, which is one more than the OP wanted to use.
        ryandrake 7y ago
        I’d think any developer would want at a bare minimum two test machines: one representing the minimum system required by your application including minimum targeted OS version, and a higher end machine running the latest. Judging my the reaction to my comment, Today I Learned it’s acceptable to release software with only cursory testing on a friend’s computer. Explains a lot about recent software quality actually...
arvinsim 7y ago
And that's why Electron is popular. People don't have to deal with these issues.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  More specifically, developers don't have to deal with these issues. They simply create more issues for their users.

filleduchaos 7y ago

I don't quite see how that at all follows, considering that notarization is something you can do from e.g. a CI server. I'm concerned at this point about if anybody that this supposedly effects has actually done any research at all on it.

digitalsushi 7y ago
The last place I worked at, it was socially forbidden to automate the digital signing process, such as in a CD pipeline. Now I'm curious to hear if we were being paranoid.

reaperducer 7y ago

Should people be required to own a Mac to release desktop software for the Mac? How do you test your software without the machine you're targeting? Every programmer knows that VMs aren't as good as the real thing.

trothamel 7y ago
You send it to a friend of yours that has a mac, but isn't a developer.
- ryandrake 7y ago
  I hope you are being sarcastic! That’s a low quality assurance bar, even by a hobbyist’s standards. “My friend with one Mac running one OS version says it works, therefore I’m ready to release?”
  - trothamel 7y ago
    I'm not. When you're a high school student releasing your first computer game on a well-tested engine, that's a perfectly valid level of quality assurance. Not everyone can afford to keep around a lab full of macs running multiple versions of macOS.
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      No one says you need a bunch of Macs. People are saying that you need one, which is one more than the OP wanted to use.
      - ryandrake 7y ago
        I’d think any developer would want at a bare minimum two test machines: one representing the minimum system required by your application including minimum targeted OS version, and a higher end machine running the latest. Judging my the reaction to my comment, Today I Learned it’s acceptable to release software with only cursory testing on a friend’s computer. Explains a lot about recent software quality actually...

arvinsim 7y ago

And that's why Electron is popular. People don't have to deal with these issues.

saagarjha 7y ago
More specifically, developers don't have to deal with these issues. They simply create more issues for their users.