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Do people not understand this is how pensions work. If your company isn't there when you retire, you don't get a pension. I find it incredibly risky to rely o

Do people not understand this is how pensions work. If your company isn't there when you retire, you don't get a pension. I find it incredibly risky to rely on pensions. I don't quite understand why employees are so excited about non cash benefits.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
>I don't quite understand why employees are so excited about non cash benefits. They might not be aware that automation has done away with the role of pension fund managers. In the old days, you couldn't just go out and buy a total stock market or bond market ETF. Nowadays, you don't even have to think about asset allocation with target date funds. And since all investments are going towards the fewer and fewer remaining companies, a bailout for one is a bailout for all.
phonebanshee 7y ago
Why do you think that? httpss://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_Benefit_Guaranty_Corporation
- mywittyname 7y ago
  Note that certain non-profits are not obligated to be federally insured. The most notable example of this is hospital staff, as a significant number of hospitals are run by religious organizations.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  PBGC only insures some part of a pension, has many exclusions, and is definitely not "funded" enough itself to protect against the number of pension funds that are running out of funds. https://www.ai-cio.com/news/multiemployer-pension-lifeboat-sinking-fast/ https://www.ai-cio.com/news/multiemployer-pension-lifeboat-s...
mschuster91 7y ago
In Germany, the pension (Rentenversicherung) follows you during your employment life, the mandatory contributions are automatically paid by your employer and it does not matter if the employer goes belly-up at some time between now and your eventual death. The idea that someone could lose their retirement and depend on social security or nothing at all simply because the company one has dedicated his life to goes bankrupt is just... horrible.
- mercutio2 7y ago
  It is a horrible idea, which is why it’s not true for defined benefit retirement funds in the US. Unless one happens to work for a religious organization, in which case, yes, I agree, we should remove the religious exemption from needing to contribute to the common insurance fund for defined benefit plans.
  - mschuster91 7y ago
    > It is a horrible idea, which is why it’s not true for defined benefit retirement funds in the US. What exactly about this idea is horrible? Of course it sounds like socialism but what's the concrete things that are "bad"?
    - mercutio2 7y ago
      You asserted that people in the US can lose their pensions if the company goes out of business. This isn’t true. If it were true, that would be horrible. There’s a government supported backstop for pension funds if the company goes out of business.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  What is the difference between Rentenversicherung and Social Security? They sound like the same thing.
ceejayoz 7y ago
> If your company isn't there when you retire, you don't get a pension. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_Benefit_Guaranty_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_Benefit_Guaranty_Corpo...
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  https://www.ai-cio.com/news/multiemployer-pension-lifeboat-sinking-fast/ https://www.ai-cio.com/news/multiemployer-pension-lifeboat-s... It's mostly for show, and at the end of the day, if the pensioners have enough political clout (like those of GM in 2008/2009), then they will get bailed out for real by Congress.
walshemj 7y ago
The pension is separate to the company is it not, or is the US more lax. In the UK pensions are independent of the company due mostly to some scandals in the past Robert Maxwell for example.
ghaff 7y ago
Leaving aside government guarantees or other forms of pension insurance that may or may not be effective... >If your company isn't there when you retire, you don't get a pension. It depends. My pension has gone through a couple of different acquisitions but it still exists.
RIMR 7y ago
Employees are excited about non-cash benefits because they were told by their employers that they are worth getting excited about. Employers are excited about non-cash benefits because it cuts risk by reducing their overall obligation to their employees.

lotsofpulp 7y ago

>I don't quite understand why employees are so excited about non cash benefits. They might not be aware that automation has done away with the role of pension fund managers. In the old days, you couldn't just go out and buy a total stock market or bond market ETF. Nowadays, you don't even have to think about asset allocation with target date funds. And since all investments are going towards the fewer and fewer remaining companies, a bailout for one is a bailout for all.

phonebanshee 7y ago

Why do you think that? httpss://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_Benefit_Guaranty_Corporation

mywittyname 7y ago
Note that certain non-profits are not obligated to be federally insured. The most notable example of this is hospital staff, as a significant number of hospitals are run by religious organizations.
lotsofpulp 7y ago
PBGC only insures some part of a pension, has many exclusions, and is definitely not "funded" enough itself to protect against the number of pension funds that are running out of funds. https://www.ai-cio.com/news/multiemployer-pension-lifeboat-sinking-fast/ https://www.ai-cio.com/news/multiemployer-pension-lifeboat-s...

mschuster91 7y ago

In Germany, the pension (Rentenversicherung) follows you during your employment life, the mandatory contributions are automatically paid by your employer and it does not matter if the employer goes belly-up at some time between now and your eventual death. The idea that someone could lose their retirement and depend on social security or nothing at all simply because the company one has dedicated his life to goes bankrupt is just... horrible.

mercutio2 7y ago
It is a horrible idea, which is why it’s not true for defined benefit retirement funds in the US. Unless one happens to work for a religious organization, in which case, yes, I agree, we should remove the religious exemption from needing to contribute to the common insurance fund for defined benefit plans.
- mschuster91 7y ago
  > It is a horrible idea, which is why it’s not true for defined benefit retirement funds in the US. What exactly about this idea is horrible? Of course it sounds like socialism but what's the concrete things that are "bad"?
  - mercutio2 7y ago
    You asserted that people in the US can lose their pensions if the company goes out of business. This isn’t true. If it were true, that would be horrible. There’s a government supported backstop for pension funds if the company goes out of business.
lotsofpulp 7y ago
What is the difference between Rentenversicherung and Social Security? They sound like the same thing.

ceejayoz 7y ago

> If your company isn't there when you retire, you don't get a pension. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_Benefit_Guaranty_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_Benefit_Guaranty_Corpo...

lotsofpulp 7y ago
https://www.ai-cio.com/news/multiemployer-pension-lifeboat-sinking-fast/ https://www.ai-cio.com/news/multiemployer-pension-lifeboat-s... It's mostly for show, and at the end of the day, if the pensioners have enough political clout (like those of GM in 2008/2009), then they will get bailed out for real by Congress.

walshemj 7y ago

The pension is separate to the company is it not, or is the US more lax. In the UK pensions are independent of the company due mostly to some scandals in the past Robert Maxwell for example.

ghaff 7y ago

Leaving aside government guarantees or other forms of pension insurance that may or may not be effective... >If your company isn't there when you retire, you don't get a pension. It depends. My pension has gone through a couple of different acquisitions but it still exists.

RIMR 7y ago

Employees are excited about non-cash benefits because they were told by their employers that they are worth getting excited about. Employers are excited about non-cash benefits because it cuts risk by reducing their overall obligation to their employees.