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We are anti-CCP because it is the CCP who has negotiated in bad faith, by agreeing to, and then not, allowing us to vote for our leaders. They have claimed ther

We are anti-CCP because it is the CCP who has negotiated in bad faith, by agreeing to, and then not, allowing us to vote for our leaders. They have claimed there are 2 systems, yet they kidnap people in HK. They have said they were not behind the Extradition Law, and yet they force our government's hand. They have said HKers have freedom, and yet they call us terrorists and cockroaches for exercising it. The protests started because of the Extradition Law, but had to morph because of the government's response: 五大訴求缺一不可 (5 demands, not 1 less). Not a single one of them is about independence nor are any anti-China. You know that as well as I do. Mainlanders should actually read what we want instead of believing their government.

mytailorisrich 7y ago
> We are anti-CCP Why do you attack the flag of the country (and even the flag of HK) rather than the flag of the party (there is one), then? > Not a single one of them is about independence nor are any anti-China. Then you should stop actions that look anti-China even when they are reported on media like the BBC... Edit: No answers to these questions, just downvotes... Some might say this speaks louder than words.
- rumanator 7y ago
  Hasn't the Chinese government been caught running quite a few false flag operations within he scope of the HK protests?
- UIZealot 7y ago
  People who speak Mandarin are regularly harassed, told to "go back to Mainland", and attacked physically. Even Cantonese speaking local HKers, who tried to remove roadblocks (so their vehicles could pass) set up by the protesters, were regularly attacked.
  - mytailorispoor1 7y ago
    > People who speak Mandarin are regularly harassed, told to "go back to Mainland", and attacked physically. I don't disagree there is some racism going on in some areas in Hong Kong. But it is definitely not the normal. You will definite not see that behavior in the financial district. But its no different that some Beijingers thinking southern people are barbarians is it? You simply ignore and move on. > Even Cantonese speaking local HKers, who tried to remove roadblocks (so their vehicles could pass) set up by the protesters, were regularly attacked. This is clearly bias. Given, the only people that would try to remove roadblocks are pro-china people. Most local HK people avoid the protest areas and stay indoors.
    - azemzaj 7y ago
      local HK people need to go to work and go to school as well, roadblocks affected general publics, taxi drivers especially because they have to finance their car.
    - doomleika 7y ago
      There's multiple account within this month alone https://youtu.be/heIUuhAlc1g https://youtu.be/heIUuhAlc1g https://twitter.com/JiayangFan/status/1175319171892207616 https://twitter.com/JiayangFan/status/1175319171892207616
    - UIZealot 7y ago
      So harassing, heckling, and physically attaching people is "no different" from thinking some people are barbarians? And people who needed to use the road to get somewhere are automatically "pro-china"? And they deserved to be attacked? Can you even believe yourself? Honestly?
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > Why do you attack the flag of the country (and even the flag of HK) rather than the flag of the party, then? It seems to me, that in China to attack the party is to attack the state, and vice verse. To quote France's Louis XIV: L'état, c'est moi. Am I incorrect?
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    Very clearly, attacking the flag is seen as attacking the country... Especially when some other protesters also wave foreign flags. As mentioned, the party actually has a flag, if they wanted to make things beyond doubt.
    - mytailorispoor1 7y ago
      The fact you actually have to mention there is a flag means most people don't know about it. As a someone that has lived in Hong Kong for the last 10 years, even I didn't know this flag exist. Searching online, I cannot say the flag is immediately recognizable. Maybe the protestors should use the CCP flag instead, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt.
      - mytailorisrich 7y ago
        Chinese know that there is a party flag. I have to explain to you, I don't have to explain to Chinese people. By the way, the flag is very prominently displayed in the annual 1st October parade along with the PLA flag (do you know about that one?), in addition to the country flag. I'm sure they also know what it means to fly the HK British colonial flag, the Union Jack, etc. It goes beyond the benefit of the doubt... For someone who claims to have lived in China for 10 years you seem very not curious about your environment and its history.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - dang 7y ago
        Would you please stop creating new accounts for each comment or two that you post? This is against the site rules, and we ban accounts that do it. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. HN is a community. Users needn't use their real name, but do need some identity for others to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix&page=0&query=by:dang%20community%20identity https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
UIZealot 7y ago
> They have claimed there are 2 systems, yet they kidnap people in HK. They kidnapped one person, as far as I know. I agree they crossed the line there, and there's no excuse for that. But that's an exception, not the norm. > They have said they were not behind the Extradition Law, and yet they force our government's hand. Where's the evidence they are behind that? How are they forcing the HK government's hand? > They have said HKers have freedom, and yet they call us terrorists and cockroaches for exercising it. You have the freedom to peaceful demonstrations an protests, not violence or destruction. And the CCP most certainly did not call you cockroaches, some angry mainlanders maybe, but not the CCP. (EDIT: downvoters, please use the truth to argue your side, instead of downvoting me to try to suppress it.)
- bnanapubc12323 7y ago
  > One person, as far as I know. I agree they crossed the line there, and there's no excuse for that. But that's an exception, not the norm. This has got to be the most screwed up comment I have read on this matter. So you are admitting the Communist government does not care for the laws of Hong Kong.
- missosoup 7y ago
  > They kidnapped one person, as far as I know. You don't know much, which is why you're being downvoted. The extradition law that sparked these protests was a formalisation/legalisation of a decade long string of kidnappings with increasing frequency and visibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_Bay_Books_disappearances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_Bay_Books_disappearan... https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/kidnap-03012019112417.html https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/kidnap-03012019112417... https://www.scmp.com/news/china/economy/article/2141462/chinese-tycoon-xiao-jianhua-missing-15-months-vanishing-hong-kong https://www.scmp.com/news/china/economy/article/2141462/chin...
  - UIZealot 7y ago
    Thanks for filling in the information. So there're two confirmed cases, and an alleged failed kidnap attempt. But these are still exceptional cases, the vast majority of HK people have no reason to fear the same fate. > The extradition law that sparked these protests was a formalisation/legalisation of a decade long string of kidnappings with increasing frequency and visibility. Where are the reports to back up this "a decade long string of kidnappings"? Or are there just the same three cases? Where's the evidence China was behind the extradition law? In any case, the extradition law has been officially (announced to be) withdrawn. Stop using it to justify the continuing and escalating violence and destruction.

mytailorisrich 7y ago

> We are anti-CCP Why do you attack the flag of the country (and even the flag of HK) rather than the flag of the party (there is one), then? > Not a single one of them is about independence nor are any anti-China. Then you should stop actions that look anti-China even when they are reported on media like the BBC... Edit: No answers to these questions, just downvotes... Some might say this speaks louder than words.

rumanator 7y ago
Hasn't the Chinese government been caught running quite a few false flag operations within he scope of the HK protests?
UIZealot 7y ago
People who speak Mandarin are regularly harassed, told to "go back to Mainland", and attacked physically. Even Cantonese speaking local HKers, who tried to remove roadblocks (so their vehicles could pass) set up by the protesters, were regularly attacked.
- mytailorispoor1 7y ago
  > People who speak Mandarin are regularly harassed, told to "go back to Mainland", and attacked physically. I don't disagree there is some racism going on in some areas in Hong Kong. But it is definitely not the normal. You will definite not see that behavior in the financial district. But its no different that some Beijingers thinking southern people are barbarians is it? You simply ignore and move on. > Even Cantonese speaking local HKers, who tried to remove roadblocks (so their vehicles could pass) set up by the protesters, were regularly attacked. This is clearly bias. Given, the only people that would try to remove roadblocks are pro-china people. Most local HK people avoid the protest areas and stay indoors.
  - azemzaj 7y ago
    local HK people need to go to work and go to school as well, roadblocks affected general publics, taxi drivers especially because they have to finance their car.
  - doomleika 7y ago
    There's multiple account within this month alone https://youtu.be/heIUuhAlc1g https://youtu.be/heIUuhAlc1g https://twitter.com/JiayangFan/status/1175319171892207616 https://twitter.com/JiayangFan/status/1175319171892207616
  - UIZealot 7y ago
    So harassing, heckling, and physically attaching people is "no different" from thinking some people are barbarians? And people who needed to use the road to get somewhere are automatically "pro-china"? And they deserved to be attacked? Can you even believe yourself? Honestly?
throw0101a 7y ago
> Why do you attack the flag of the country (and even the flag of HK) rather than the flag of the party, then? It seems to me, that in China to attack the party is to attack the state, and vice verse. To quote France's Louis XIV: L'état, c'est moi. Am I incorrect?
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  Very clearly, attacking the flag is seen as attacking the country... Especially when some other protesters also wave foreign flags. As mentioned, the party actually has a flag, if they wanted to make things beyond doubt.
  - mytailorispoor1 7y ago
    The fact you actually have to mention there is a flag means most people don't know about it. As a someone that has lived in Hong Kong for the last 10 years, even I didn't know this flag exist. Searching online, I cannot say the flag is immediately recognizable. Maybe the protestors should use the CCP flag instead, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt.
    - mytailorisrich 7y ago
      Chinese know that there is a party flag. I have to explain to you, I don't have to explain to Chinese people. By the way, the flag is very prominently displayed in the annual 1st October parade along with the PLA flag (do you know about that one?), in addition to the country flag. I'm sure they also know what it means to fly the HK British colonial flag, the Union Jack, etc. It goes beyond the benefit of the doubt... For someone who claims to have lived in China for 10 years you seem very not curious about your environment and its history.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - dang 7y ago
      Would you please stop creating new accounts for each comment or two that you post? This is against the site rules, and we ban accounts that do it. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. HN is a community. Users needn't use their real name, but do need some identity for others to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix&page=0&query=by:dang%20community%20identity https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

UIZealot 7y ago

> They have claimed there are 2 systems, yet they kidnap people in HK. They kidnapped one person, as far as I know. I agree they crossed the line there, and there's no excuse for that. But that's an exception, not the norm. > They have said they were not behind the Extradition Law, and yet they force our government's hand. Where's the evidence they are behind that? How are they forcing the HK government's hand? > They have said HKers have freedom, and yet they call us terrorists and cockroaches for exercising it. You have the freedom to peaceful demonstrations an protests, not violence or destruction. And the CCP most certainly did not call you cockroaches, some angry mainlanders maybe, but not the CCP. (EDIT: downvoters, please use the truth to argue your side, instead of downvoting me to try to suppress it.)

bnanapubc12323 7y ago
> One person, as far as I know. I agree they crossed the line there, and there's no excuse for that. But that's an exception, not the norm. This has got to be the most screwed up comment I have read on this matter. So you are admitting the Communist government does not care for the laws of Hong Kong.
missosoup 7y ago
> They kidnapped one person, as far as I know. You don't know much, which is why you're being downvoted. The extradition law that sparked these protests was a formalisation/legalisation of a decade long string of kidnappings with increasing frequency and visibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_Bay_Books_disappearances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_Bay_Books_disappearan... https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/kidnap-03012019112417.html https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/kidnap-03012019112417... https://www.scmp.com/news/china/economy/article/2141462/chinese-tycoon-xiao-jianhua-missing-15-months-vanishing-hong-kong https://www.scmp.com/news/china/economy/article/2141462/chin...
- UIZealot 7y ago
  Thanks for filling in the information. So there're two confirmed cases, and an alleged failed kidnap attempt. But these are still exceptional cases, the vast majority of HK people have no reason to fear the same fate. > The extradition law that sparked these protests was a formalisation/legalisation of a decade long string of kidnappings with increasing frequency and visibility. Where are the reports to back up this "a decade long string of kidnappings"? Or are there just the same three cases? Where's the evidence China was behind the extradition law? In any case, the extradition law has been officially (announced to be) withdrawn. Stop using it to justify the continuing and escalating violence and destruction.