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A warrant can also authorize surveillance, at least in most countries. In Japan even that was impossible until 1999. That's why I said the Jakuza and other crim
by bayesian_horse 7y ago
A warrant can also authorize surveillance, at least in most countries. In Japan even that was impossible until 1999. That's why I said the Jakuza and other criminals in Japan probably liked that policy...
And both surveillance and the seizure of evidence are routinely the key to convicting criminals. Outlawing court-approved surveillance or even seizure of evidence makes basic laws, like against homicide, much less enforceable.
- coldtea 7y ago>That's why I said the Jakuza and other criminals in Japan probably liked that policy... Well, they also liked that other policy, that suspected Yakuza members can't just be shot on sight -- but had to be arrested, go through trial, etc. So? Bad guys liking a policy and the policy being generally bad is not the same thing...
- bayesian_horse 7y agoAgain with the straw man. Please read more carefully. I did not imply anything with that statement but the pure and simple fact that the Jakuza has at least one big extra problem to deal with since police are actually allowed to tap their phones. And you could also be more honest by saying that total privacy is more important to you than a significant portion of criminal convictions. I don't think that's a good tradeoff.
- coldtea 7y ago>I did not imply anything with that statement but the pure and simple fact that the Jakuza has at least one big extra problem to deal with since police are actually allowed to tap their phones. I seriously doubt it is a problem for them, much less "a big one". What kind of amateurs speak openly on their regular phones about covert action, whether it's legal or not to wiretap them? Besides the fact that the police could be listening in (illegally, but still routine in most of the world) to get useful tips (and use them, just without expecting to use the recordings in a trial), rival gangs could also listen in on their plans, and so on... >And you could also be more honest by saying that total privacy is more important to you than a significant portion of criminal convictions Considering that Japan is perhaps the safest countries in the world (and was for decades while wiretapping was not allowed), and the US and UK with dead easy access to wiretapping warrants and mass surveillance are of the worst western countries in regards of crime, I don't think there's that much to teach the Japanese with regards to getting more "criminal convictions"...
- bayesian_horse 7y agoWhat kind of amateurs use basic phones for criminal activity? Well, apparently a whole lot of them, looking at criminal convictions based on such surveillance. Are you disputing that basic and obvious fact? Sorry, but this is not a fact based argument any more. You are somehow trying to convince me that, despite all evidence and data, wiretaps are useless in prosecution of criminals. I'm not having that, anymore.
- ameister14 7y agoHow has the conviction rate changed since 1999?
- amdavidson 7y agoThe conviction rate in Japan is bonkers and has been for a long time. http://hakusyo1.moj.go.jp/en/61/image/image/h002003001001h.jpg http://hakusyo1.moj.go.jp/en/61/image/image/h002003001001h.j...
- bayesian_horse 7y agoThat is completely irrelevant to the discussion because such a rate would depend on a huge number of more significant factors.