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Do you want to say no terrorism has been prevented by lawful surveillance? The number of 1-10 deaths per year is completely ridiculous. And distorting the fact

Do you want to say no terrorism has been prevented by lawful surveillance? The number of 1-10 deaths per year is completely ridiculous. And distorting the fact that law enforcement is not just about preventing terrorism. Can you count the number of cases where criminals have been convicted because of surveillance? I don't think you'd like a world where criminals can evade any surveillance just by outlawing all of it. You don't even need to think about drug traffickers, terrorists or pedophiles. Just think about all the "unorganized"/private murderers that have been convicted partly because of telephone recordings or, yes, text messages.

ernst_klim 7y ago
> Do you want to say no terrorism has been prevented by lawful surveillance? There could be no verifiable data on how much is that. Maybe many, maybe none. Yet the facts are: terrorism is not a huge threat. There are few terrorists, even fewer successful ones. It's three times more chances of getting killed by a lightning strike here in Europe, than by a terrorist. Another fact is: the vast majority of people are good decent people, who behave well and not blowing up planes, shooting jews in synagogues etc. Hence, the surveillance measures taken to "prevent terrorism" have costs vastly surpassing the benefits, since the majority is suffering for the sake of (allegedly) diminishing of already tiny numbers [1] [2]. Not to mention the increase of risk of waking up in a totalitarian state. [1] http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/security/20180703STO07125/terrorism-in-the-eu-terror-attacks-deaths-and-arrests http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/security/201... [2] http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/20190410STO36615/road-fatality-statistics-in-the-eu-infographic http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/2019...
feanaro 7y ago
You're talking as if unbreakable end-to-end encryption doesn't exist today. It exists and we are not suffering horribly because of it. On the other hand, we will suffer horribly under an authoritarian panopticon if it is able to come into existence.
- missosoup 7y ago
  More people need to know the meaning of the term panopticon. Bentham and Foucault need to be mandatory high school reading.
  - rusk 7y ago
    Not everybody goes to high school; not everybody that goes to high school participates; not everybody that participates comprehends. We've had a suitable version of this, 1984, recomended for some years now. Only a small percentage of people however fully comprehend the meaning of the term "Orwellian", as evidenced by the popularity of many of the early Telescreen prototypes in the guise of smartphones, smart TVs and home voice assistants ...

ernst_klim 7y ago

> Do you want to say no terrorism has been prevented by lawful surveillance? There could be no verifiable data on how much is that. Maybe many, maybe none. Yet the facts are: terrorism is not a huge threat. There are few terrorists, even fewer successful ones. It's three times more chances of getting killed by a lightning strike here in Europe, than by a terrorist. Another fact is: the vast majority of people are good decent people, who behave well and not blowing up planes, shooting jews in synagogues etc. Hence, the surveillance measures taken to "prevent terrorism" have costs vastly surpassing the benefits, since the majority is suffering for the sake of (allegedly) diminishing of already tiny numbers [1] [2]. Not to mention the increase of risk of waking up in a totalitarian state. [1] http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/security/20180703STO07125/terrorism-in-the-eu-terror-attacks-deaths-and-arrests http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/security/201... [2] http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/20190410STO36615/road-fatality-statistics-in-the-eu-infographic http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/2019...

feanaro 7y ago

You're talking as if unbreakable end-to-end encryption doesn't exist today. It exists and we are not suffering horribly because of it. On the other hand, we will suffer horribly under an authoritarian panopticon if it is able to come into existence.

missosoup 7y ago
More people need to know the meaning of the term panopticon. Bentham and Foucault need to be mandatory high school reading.
- rusk 7y ago
  Not everybody goes to high school; not everybody that goes to high school participates; not everybody that participates comprehends. We've had a suitable version of this, 1984, recomended for some years now. Only a small percentage of people however fully comprehend the meaning of the term "Orwellian", as evidenced by the popularity of many of the early Telescreen prototypes in the guise of smartphones, smart TVs and home voice assistants ...