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apparently anything on the site like a code example that talks about people like Bob and Alice cant use He and She - because it might offend the 0.01% of people

apparently anything on the site like a code example that talks about people like Bob and Alice cant use He and She - because it might offend the 0.01% of people who think that everyone needs to state their pronouns. apparently even saying They isnt enough. its what happens when you give in to the tiny minority that will always complain about something

je42 7y ago
i think the disagreement is the trigger. It looks like the deeper issue is that the way how some SE people dealt with the disagreement has been causing a lot of pain and distrust.
- anon12345690 7y ago
  when 99.99% people agree then we dont really need new rules like its pretty simple, use it if someone asks but otherwise just stick with the defaults that everyone understands
1shooner 7y ago
When would a mod use pronouns anyway? It seems like an edge case of an edge case, in terms of gross count of incidents.
- alanbernstein 7y ago
  You might be underestimating how commonly Alice and Bob are used in algorithm explains.
- anon12345690 7y ago
  because using people in examples is really common to explain things? like saying "bob wants to save this to the database but he got an error" is pretty common and nobody has a problem because they know bob is a he the edge case is the people who get outraged that a fake example isnt gender neutral
- mthoms 7y ago
  An edge case on the programming sites certainly. But they've grown beyond that. The site in question deals with religion.
Buge 7y ago
Do you have a source for your claim that code examples with Alice and Bob with she/he pronouns are not accepted on Stack Exchange? I haven't seen any claim like that before.
- anon12345690 7y ago
  see the linked article the other comment posted. its point number 1
  - Buge 7y ago
    You mean this quote: >June 2018: There was a TL discussion about gender-neutral pronouns and then "preferred pronouns". (I know they're not "preferred", but this was the phrasing used by the people bringing it up.) Some moderators who are not native English speakers expressed confusion. I said I avoid singular they for that reason, 95% of the time you can write around the problem, and (on SE) I'm offended when someone edits my posts badly to solve a gender-neutrality problem. (Editing well is fine, which usually means pluralizing or using a name or something like that instead of either generic "he" or singular "they".) Some people said not using preferred pronouns invalidates the person; I said for me it's not about the person at all but the quality of my own writing (an important part of my identity). Tension rose, other people said some things I saw as bullying, and I stepped out. For a long time after, I didn't enter the room unless strictly necessary. Note: no employee said anything to me about my role in this conversation, and while some other mods disagreed with my position, none said anything like "this is a Code of Conduct (CoC) violation". Employees witnessed this discussion. I don't see anything in there that would apply to fictional characters (Alice and Bob). It all seems to be only about real people. Also I don't see anything in there that indicates Stack Exchange says you can't refer to Alice as "she", unless Alice specifically wants to be called by some other pronoun.
    - anon12345690 7y ago
      theyre editing posts for perceived or pretend offense if it was a specific person then theres nothing to edit because you would just use the pronouns and there wouldnt be any issue. they dont talk about anyone who specifically wanted different pronouns in that story
fenwick67 7y ago
This is pretty inaccurate and inflammatory.
- anon12345690 7y ago
  why? its literally the points right here https://cellio.dreamwidth.org/2064709.html https://cellio.dreamwidth.org/2064709.html
  - fenwick67 7y ago
    "apparently anything on the site like a code example that talks about people like Bob and Alice cant use He and She" is wrong. SE wanted people's correct pronouns explicitly used if they were given. Has nothing to do with rhetorical Alice or Bob, and SE didn't object to calling women 'she'. Furthermore, the actual root of the controversy here is that Cellio was removed of her admin title too swiftly, and generally SE hasn't managed their admins very fairly or well. Overall it looks like you're trying to spin whole scenario as "the LGBTQ+ snowflakes are whining again" and that's not the actual story here.
    - anon12345690 7y ago
      yea ok if they werent whining then there wouldnt be a problem would there? we wouldnt even be talking about pronouns if nobody cared huh? lol whatever

je42 7y ago

i think the disagreement is the trigger. It looks like the deeper issue is that the way how some SE people dealt with the disagreement has been causing a lot of pain and distrust.

anon12345690 7y ago
when 99.99% people agree then we dont really need new rules like its pretty simple, use it if someone asks but otherwise just stick with the defaults that everyone understands

1shooner 7y ago

When would a mod use pronouns anyway? It seems like an edge case of an edge case, in terms of gross count of incidents.

alanbernstein 7y ago
You might be underestimating how commonly Alice and Bob are used in algorithm explains.
anon12345690 7y ago
because using people in examples is really common to explain things? like saying "bob wants to save this to the database but he got an error" is pretty common and nobody has a problem because they know bob is a he the edge case is the people who get outraged that a fake example isnt gender neutral
mthoms 7y ago
An edge case on the programming sites certainly. But they've grown beyond that. The site in question deals with religion.

Buge 7y ago

Do you have a source for your claim that code examples with Alice and Bob with she/he pronouns are not accepted on Stack Exchange? I haven't seen any claim like that before.

anon12345690 7y ago
see the linked article the other comment posted. its point number 1
- Buge 7y ago
  You mean this quote: >June 2018: There was a TL discussion about gender-neutral pronouns and then "preferred pronouns". (I know they're not "preferred", but this was the phrasing used by the people bringing it up.) Some moderators who are not native English speakers expressed confusion. I said I avoid singular they for that reason, 95% of the time you can write around the problem, and (on SE) I'm offended when someone edits my posts badly to solve a gender-neutrality problem. (Editing well is fine, which usually means pluralizing or using a name or something like that instead of either generic "he" or singular "they".) Some people said not using preferred pronouns invalidates the person; I said for me it's not about the person at all but the quality of my own writing (an important part of my identity). Tension rose, other people said some things I saw as bullying, and I stepped out. For a long time after, I didn't enter the room unless strictly necessary. Note: no employee said anything to me about my role in this conversation, and while some other mods disagreed with my position, none said anything like "this is a Code of Conduct (CoC) violation". Employees witnessed this discussion. I don't see anything in there that would apply to fictional characters (Alice and Bob). It all seems to be only about real people. Also I don't see anything in there that indicates Stack Exchange says you can't refer to Alice as "she", unless Alice specifically wants to be called by some other pronoun.
  - anon12345690 7y ago
    theyre editing posts for perceived or pretend offense if it was a specific person then theres nothing to edit because you would just use the pronouns and there wouldnt be any issue. they dont talk about anyone who specifically wanted different pronouns in that story

fenwick67 7y ago

This is pretty inaccurate and inflammatory.

anon12345690 7y ago
why? its literally the points right here https://cellio.dreamwidth.org/2064709.html https://cellio.dreamwidth.org/2064709.html
- fenwick67 7y ago
  "apparently anything on the site like a code example that talks about people like Bob and Alice cant use He and She" is wrong. SE wanted people's correct pronouns explicitly used if they were given. Has nothing to do with rhetorical Alice or Bob, and SE didn't object to calling women 'she'. Furthermore, the actual root of the controversy here is that Cellio was removed of her admin title too swiftly, and generally SE hasn't managed their admins very fairly or well. Overall it looks like you're trying to spin whole scenario as "the LGBTQ+ snowflakes are whining again" and that's not the actual story here.
  - anon12345690 7y ago
    yea ok if they werent whining then there wouldnt be a problem would there? we wouldnt even be talking about pronouns if nobody cared huh? lol whatever