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> how pronoun usage would re-conciliate with moderators with religion restrictions It seems clear that, in their updated CoC, the requirement to be respectful

> how pronoun usage would re-conciliate with moderators with religion restrictions It seems clear that, in their updated CoC, the requirement to be respectful trumps religious restrictions. And that's pretty much the standard here, isn't it? I can't imagine rudeness being OK here, even if it's required religiously.

throwaway82737 7y ago
That's a pretty large canyon you're leaping across to conflate someone's personal preference to how they get addressed and rudeness being "required religiously". Oops, I just used "they" without asking the hypothetical "someone" how they'd like to be addressed. I assume youd also say someone believing a man cannot be a woman is someone who should be wiped from the public discourse of the internet as well. Can you be offended by it? Absolutely, but there is nothing inherently "rude" about such a statement. I prefer to be addressed "Sir Knight of the Round Table". Failure to do so will constitute breaking HN and SE CoC. It doesn't take far down the rabbit hole for the shoe to land on the other side.
- mirimir 7y ago
  Well, Sir Knight of the Round Table, I don't have any problem with that. It's a little on the long side, but whatever makes you happy. Seriously, though, that just simplifies to male. I'm just an old anonymous coward who doesn't get out much. But I did ask a younger friend about this, and got that people who care advertise their declared status in their sig and/or username. As does, for example, "Zoe the transgirl".
  - reitanqild 7y ago
    > Seriously, though, that just simplifies to male. Seriously, I'm tired of this. In what company that HNers want to work in does being a male give you any advantage? Or in what school? (I'm aware of certain nurse and chemistry studies prioritizing men, but that's it.) If you cannot come up with any I kindly suggest stop insulting men. You don't need to do that to support others. - Someone who has gone out of his way to help women and immigrants
    - mirimir 7y ago
      Sorry. I have no agenda against men. I am one. Isn't it obvious? But some of my personas are female, I admit. I was just pointing out that "sir" implies male gender. And given that we're talking about gender pronouns, not titles, the rest of it is irrelevant.
reitanqild 7y ago
You are writing as if there is a conflict here. Rudeness never was OK. Problem is she wasn't rude. She was communicating exemplary and no examples have been given of anything else. What is happening is she's been tried for thought crime in a secret court and it seems her professional[0] writing style can be construed using the necessary mental gymnastics as her not wanting to please the wishes of certain people. [0]: again, not only professional but also exemplary based on all we've heard.
- mirimir 7y ago
  I'm not saying that Monica was rude. I'm not even talking specifically about her, here. I'm postulating the existence of a religious person who would (for example) refuse to use "he" for a biologically female person who identifies as male. But would instead use singular "they", or passive voice, to evade the issue. I'm not saying that they would insist on using "she". Just that they wouldn't use "he". That might be her position, based on two meta threads.[0,1] But she doesn't actually say that. Others sort of say that, and she doesn't correct them. And certainly I may have missed her clear statement. But as I've said, I'm not claiming that to be her position. So anyway, if someone actually did refuse to use declared gender, that would arguably be rude. Or at least, it would be perceived as rudeness, which is arguably what matters in communities. 0) https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-and-forced-relicensing-is-stack-exchange-still-interested-in-cooper/334101 https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-... 1) https://judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5193/stack-overflow-inc-sinat-chinam-and-the-goat-for-azazel https://judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5193/stack-...
  - peferron 7y ago
    On one of your links she writes the following: > In my email I said clearly that I'm on board with "use preferred pronouns when using pronouns" I think this rules out using singular "they" if the person would rather be referred to by "he" or "she" for example. At least I hope so.
    - mirimir 7y ago

throwaway82737 7y ago

That's a pretty large canyon you're leaping across to conflate someone's personal preference to how they get addressed and rudeness being "required religiously". Oops, I just used "they" without asking the hypothetical "someone" how they'd like to be addressed. I assume youd also say someone believing a man cannot be a woman is someone who should be wiped from the public discourse of the internet as well. Can you be offended by it? Absolutely, but there is nothing inherently "rude" about such a statement. I prefer to be addressed "Sir Knight of the Round Table". Failure to do so will constitute breaking HN and SE CoC. It doesn't take far down the rabbit hole for the shoe to land on the other side.

mirimir 7y ago
Well, Sir Knight of the Round Table, I don't have any problem with that. It's a little on the long side, but whatever makes you happy. Seriously, though, that just simplifies to male. I'm just an old anonymous coward who doesn't get out much. But I did ask a younger friend about this, and got that people who care advertise their declared status in their sig and/or username. As does, for example, "Zoe the transgirl".
- reitanqild 7y ago
  > Seriously, though, that just simplifies to male. Seriously, I'm tired of this. In what company that HNers want to work in does being a male give you any advantage? Or in what school? (I'm aware of certain nurse and chemistry studies prioritizing men, but that's it.) If you cannot come up with any I kindly suggest stop insulting men. You don't need to do that to support others. - Someone who has gone out of his way to help women and immigrants
  - mirimir 7y ago
    Sorry. I have no agenda against men. I am one. Isn't it obvious? But some of my personas are female, I admit. I was just pointing out that "sir" implies male gender. And given that we're talking about gender pronouns, not titles, the rest of it is irrelevant.

reitanqild 7y ago

You are writing as if there is a conflict here. Rudeness never was OK. Problem is she wasn't rude. She was communicating exemplary and no examples have been given of anything else. What is happening is she's been tried for thought crime in a secret court and it seems her professional[0] writing style can be construed using the necessary mental gymnastics as her not wanting to please the wishes of certain people. [0]: again, not only professional but also exemplary based on all we've heard.

mirimir 7y ago
I'm not saying that Monica was rude. I'm not even talking specifically about her, here. I'm postulating the existence of a religious person who would (for example) refuse to use "he" for a biologically female person who identifies as male. But would instead use singular "they", or passive voice, to evade the issue. I'm not saying that they would insist on using "she". Just that they wouldn't use "he". That might be her position, based on two meta threads.[0,1] But she doesn't actually say that. Others sort of say that, and she doesn't correct them. And certainly I may have missed her clear statement. But as I've said, I'm not claiming that to be her position. So anyway, if someone actually did refuse to use declared gender, that would arguably be rude. Or at least, it would be perceived as rudeness, which is arguably what matters in communities. 0) https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-and-forced-relicensing-is-stack-exchange-still-interested-in-cooper/334101 https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-... 1) https://judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5193/stack-overflow-inc-sinat-chinam-and-the-goat-for-azazel https://judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5193/stack-...
- peferron 7y ago
  On one of your links she writes the following: > In my email I said clearly that I'm on board with "use preferred pronouns when using pronouns" I think this rules out using singular "they" if the person would rather be referred to by "he" or "she" for example. At least I hope so.
  - mirimir 7y ago