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The difference between "using the language formally correctly" and "using the language in a way to pass the exam" (and of course "using the language as it is ac

The difference between "using the language formally correctly" and "using the language in a way to pass the exam" (and of course "using the language as it is actually spoken") is not a problem specific to English or foreign-language speakers. Many (most?) countries have even stronger regional variance than English, even more than e.g. American vs. UK. TOEFL-takers are not idiots; they can understand what is correct in one context is not in another, especially hyper-formal, artificial contexts like taking tests. And the overwhelming majority of objection to singular they does not come from people who have deeply tied their identity to TOEFL.

ergocoder 7y ago
I agree with what you say, but the problem is rather specific to american culture. Being called names (like bigots) because you don't wanna use a singular "they" is a regular occurrence in the present time in US. While you think a singular "they" is correct, one of your authorities (TOEFL) who gatekeeps prestige US universities doesn't agree with you. Many (including me) don't care what you think (not in a bad way). You aren't authority who can punish us. We want (1) great points on TOEFL (to get into various opportunities) and (2) to avoid hurting others (i.e. misgendering). This configuration is impossible at the moment. I hope you don't suggest that we can misgender people as long as it's a TOEFL exam. It doesnt sound ok.
- morelisp 7y ago
  I didn't know TOEFL was so devious as to make all their test scenarios concern non-binary people or people of indeterminate gender, but then demand you discuss them without also explaining your pronoun choices. Wait, that doesn't happen. At all. This is non-issue.
  - ergocoder 7y ago
    Here's a link (from my 3-minute googling) suggesting that we should avoid the singular "they": https://www.compellingconversations.com/is-singular-they-ok-choosing-they-as-a-singular-pronoun https://www.compellingconversations.com/is-singular-they-ok-... > Wait, that doesn't happen. At all. Absolutist + so much exaggeration, and it seems more like you are arguing in bad faith. That's why nobody wants to talk about the usage of the singular "they". We can't even point out that your English authority doesn't agree with you. > This is non-issue. It's a non-issue to you because you aren't the students who are rejected by universities because of low TOEFL score.

ergocoder 7y ago

I agree with what you say, but the problem is rather specific to american culture. Being called names (like bigots) because you don't wanna use a singular "they" is a regular occurrence in the present time in US. While you think a singular "they" is correct, one of your authorities (TOEFL) who gatekeeps prestige US universities doesn't agree with you. Many (including me) don't care what you think (not in a bad way). You aren't authority who can punish us. We want (1) great points on TOEFL (to get into various opportunities) and (2) to avoid hurting others (i.e. misgendering). This configuration is impossible at the moment. I hope you don't suggest that we can misgender people as long as it's a TOEFL exam. It doesnt sound ok.

morelisp 7y ago
I didn't know TOEFL was so devious as to make all their test scenarios concern non-binary people or people of indeterminate gender, but then demand you discuss them without also explaining your pronoun choices. Wait, that doesn't happen. At all. This is non-issue.
- ergocoder 7y ago
  Here's a link (from my 3-minute googling) suggesting that we should avoid the singular "they": https://www.compellingconversations.com/is-singular-they-ok-choosing-they-as-a-singular-pronoun https://www.compellingconversations.com/is-singular-they-ok-... > Wait, that doesn't happen. At all. Absolutist + so much exaggeration, and it seems more like you are arguing in bad faith. That's why nobody wants to talk about the usage of the singular "they". We can't even point out that your English authority doesn't agree with you. > This is non-issue. It's a non-issue to you because you aren't the students who are rejected by universities because of low TOEFL score.