4 ms·

Contextual languages like Korean and Japanese omit pronouns/the subject entirely, unless it's ambiguous. It's common to use their name instead of "you", etc. It

Contextual languages like Korean and Japanese omit pronouns/the subject entirely, unless it's ambiguous. It's common to use their name instead of "you", etc. It's not like English where the subject cannot be omitted.

yakshaving_jgt 7y ago
It's also a cultural thing. You're not going to see any of this craziness in any Slavic country, or in most of Asia. Ideological extremism is everywhere, but this particular strain of it is mostly concentrated in the Western world, particularly America, Canada, Sweden, and Germany.
- alkonaut 7y ago
  > You're not going to see any of this craziness in any Slavic country I think you might have misunderstood why that is.
  - yakshaving_jgt 7y ago
    I welcome you to enlighten me. Unless you're going to suggest that all Slavic people are homophobic (as many Westerners seem to believe), in which case you'd be dead wrong.
    - alkonaut 7y ago
      I meant for example in Russia. The reason they aren't bickering much about pronouns there is because gays are happy to survive a parade at all. I'm going to not argue that all Slavic people are homophobic (that would be completely impossible to back up with facts). A more reasonable claim would be perhaps that people in Slavic countries today are more homophobic on average than e.g. an OECD or EU average. Not sure if such surveys exist, however - so that would have to be a guess and subjective at this point. E.g.: "The worst countries to be gay" (Italy + Eastern europe) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-15-worst-countries-to-be-gay-in-europe-azerbaijan-russia-armenia-a7024416.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-15-worst... https://www.dw.com/en/homophobia-in-poland-still-deeply-entrenched/a-49720087 https://www.dw.com/en/homophobia-in-poland-still-deeply-entr... On the other hand: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/04/debunking-stereotypes-poles-are-homophobic https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/04/debunking-ster...
      - yakshaving_jgt 7y ago
        Right. From the article: > Among the general population, the general attitude to homosexuality is: do what you like, just not in public. Having an intimate connection with Slavic culture, I can agree to this being the prevalent social sentiment.
        alkonaut 7y ago
        The opinion that people should try to be gay "in private" (if they absolutely have to be gay) is of course extremely homophobic, and is exactly my point. If e.g. kissing in public risks you a punch, or if gay marriage isn't recognized etc - that's a sign that a country (or city) is homophobic.
        yakshaving_jgt 7y ago
        Kissing in public in Poland generally doesn't risk you a punch. I don't know where you're getting that, though I understand it's a pretty common — though completely misguided — Western view. My local gay club is quite peaceful (though inside they all have a grand ol' time — it's by far one of the rowdiest gay clubs I've been to). In Slavic countries generally, who you have sex with is your own business. It's private. Nobody wants to know.
- smsm42 7y ago
  AFAIK in Slavic languages you don't even have a cop-out like English "they" and the only way of expressing non-gendered pronoun is a neuter pronoun which has very strong dehumanizing connotations when applied to humans. So I think if it ever reaches Slavo-sphere they won't be as an easy solution as using they/them in English, unless the English solution would be just copycatted - which is quite alien to Slavic languages but I guess learning newspeak would require to give up on oldthink.

yakshaving_jgt 7y ago

It's also a cultural thing. You're not going to see any of this craziness in any Slavic country, or in most of Asia. Ideological extremism is everywhere, but this particular strain of it is mostly concentrated in the Western world, particularly America, Canada, Sweden, and Germany.

alkonaut 7y ago
> You're not going to see any of this craziness in any Slavic country I think you might have misunderstood why that is.
- yakshaving_jgt 7y ago
  I welcome you to enlighten me. Unless you're going to suggest that all Slavic people are homophobic (as many Westerners seem to believe), in which case you'd be dead wrong.
  - alkonaut 7y ago
    I meant for example in Russia. The reason they aren't bickering much about pronouns there is because gays are happy to survive a parade at all. I'm going to not argue that all Slavic people are homophobic (that would be completely impossible to back up with facts). A more reasonable claim would be perhaps that people in Slavic countries today are more homophobic on average than e.g. an OECD or EU average. Not sure if such surveys exist, however - so that would have to be a guess and subjective at this point. E.g.: "The worst countries to be gay" (Italy + Eastern europe) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-15-worst-countries-to-be-gay-in-europe-azerbaijan-russia-armenia-a7024416.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-15-worst... https://www.dw.com/en/homophobia-in-poland-still-deeply-entrenched/a-49720087 https://www.dw.com/en/homophobia-in-poland-still-deeply-entr... On the other hand: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/04/debunking-stereotypes-poles-are-homophobic https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/04/debunking-ster...
    - yakshaving_jgt 7y ago
      Right. From the article: > Among the general population, the general attitude to homosexuality is: do what you like, just not in public. Having an intimate connection with Slavic culture, I can agree to this being the prevalent social sentiment.
      - alkonaut 7y ago
        The opinion that people should try to be gay "in private" (if they absolutely have to be gay) is of course extremely homophobic, and is exactly my point. If e.g. kissing in public risks you a punch, or if gay marriage isn't recognized etc - that's a sign that a country (or city) is homophobic.
        yakshaving_jgt 7y ago
        Kissing in public in Poland generally doesn't risk you a punch. I don't know where you're getting that, though I understand it's a pretty common — though completely misguided — Western view. My local gay club is quite peaceful (though inside they all have a grand ol' time — it's by far one of the rowdiest gay clubs I've been to). In Slavic countries generally, who you have sex with is your own business. It's private. Nobody wants to know.
smsm42 7y ago
AFAIK in Slavic languages you don't even have a cop-out like English "they" and the only way of expressing non-gendered pronoun is a neuter pronoun which has very strong dehumanizing connotations when applied to humans. So I think if it ever reaches Slavo-sphere they won't be as an easy solution as using they/them in English, unless the English solution would be just copycatted - which is quite alien to Slavic languages but I guess learning newspeak would require to give up on oldthink.