3 ms·

I don't think it's particularly difficult to refer to a person how they want to be referred to. Enforcing that as a standard isn't thought crime and the amount

I don't think it's particularly difficult to refer to a person how they want to be referred to. Enforcing that as a standard isn't thought crime and the amount of hand wringing over this supposed 'thought crime' is gross. I call Robert, Robert - and not Bob, Bobby, or Teddy. Because Robert goes by Robert. Similar to pronouns. Not difficult at all.

Pfhreak 7y ago
Not only is it not difficult to use someone's correct name and pronouns, frankly it's just basic politeness to call people what they want to be called.
- metafunctor 7y ago
  You don't think it's a little bit difficult to check what someone wants to be called before posting, say, a reply? There, I did it. I didn't check if “you” was OK with you. Shit, I did it again. I'm joking, of course (not really, check my profile).
  - Pfhreak 7y ago
    > You don't think it's a little bit difficult to check what someone wants to be called before posting, say, a reply? I don't. And it's only going to get easier when this stuff is a part of the profile next to a users name/avatar. > There, I did it. I didn't check if “you” was OK with you. Shit, I did it again. :eyeroll:
    - metafunctor 7y ago
      That would probably make it somewhat easy enough for most native English speakers who keep up with the times. It would still be difficult enough that a big majority of my peers (middle-aged+ non-native English speakers) would get it wrong a lot of the time. This whole thing is just a little alien and baffling to me. I don't understand why all interactions should take into account gender (or religion, age, seniority, or insert-your-favorite-disposition-here). I respect your choices and accomplishments about these things, but it's hard for me to remember to weave them into every sentence when it has nothing to do with the matter at hand. I've had quite a few fruitful and interesting discussions online without having to bring in gender, religion, age, sex, or any number of other irrelevant preferences into it. In most contexts, I don't see the point of making a point of any of those. I could call rank and require myself be called with all sorts of names (check my profile), but what would that benefit? I'm interested in your opinions; not on making you follow my rules.
teddyh 7y ago
Note: “Teddy” is usually short for “Theodore”, not “Robert”.
smsm42 7y ago
I have a somewhat unusual name for Anglosphere. Some people have trouble pronouncing it. When that happens, I don't attack them in a fit of rage, I either correct them or most frequently just ignore it. Sometimes - e.g. Starbucks and so on - I use English version of the name that I never use otherwise but that sounds close enough so I know they are calling me. I don't try to organize boycott of Starbucks and demand the state to make a law that under penalty of firing on the spot they have to pronounce my name absolutely correctly and with the right accent. I don't demand from people who don't know me to instantly know my name and never be confused about how to pronounce it - in fact, some of my friends sometimes mispronounce it and I don't have trouble with it because I know their language background makes it harder for them to express the right combination of sounds that the correct pronunciation in my native language requires. I don't demand venues to make rules that require everybody to learn my name and how to pronounce it and fire anybody who speaks around it because they can't remember it or have hard time to pronounce it. I know none of it is meant as an insult to me and none of people who have hard time properly pronouncing my name do it because they hate me and my whole ethnic background.
- nullc 7y ago
  Everyone has their quirks. If a friend breaks down crying on any mention of arbor day because their spouse died on arbor day... Someone might consider that response to be irrational, overly emotional, and/or inconvenient. But it would still be really unkind to fail to accommodate the friend. After all, it's easy to avoid mentioning arbor day 99.999% of the time. Life is hard for everyone, at least at times. When we can do something painless to avoid giving someone a bad day even if its an act that would be meaningless to us, why shouldn't we? Admitting that doesn't mean we're also required to accommodate when it's actually a problem, or that we're awful people if we don't know, forget, or make a mistake. It doesn't mean that we agree with or endorse their quirks... it's just a simple act of kindness and respect. It's also efficient, because there is almost always something better to get done than navigate some other person's emotional minefield that we avoidably upset.

Pfhreak 7y ago

Not only is it not difficult to use someone's correct name and pronouns, frankly it's just basic politeness to call people what they want to be called.

metafunctor 7y ago
You don't think it's a little bit difficult to check what someone wants to be called before posting, say, a reply? There, I did it. I didn't check if “you” was OK with you. Shit, I did it again. I'm joking, of course (not really, check my profile).
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  > You don't think it's a little bit difficult to check what someone wants to be called before posting, say, a reply? I don't. And it's only going to get easier when this stuff is a part of the profile next to a users name/avatar. > There, I did it. I didn't check if “you” was OK with you. Shit, I did it again. :eyeroll:
  - metafunctor 7y ago
    That would probably make it somewhat easy enough for most native English speakers who keep up with the times. It would still be difficult enough that a big majority of my peers (middle-aged+ non-native English speakers) would get it wrong a lot of the time. This whole thing is just a little alien and baffling to me. I don't understand why all interactions should take into account gender (or religion, age, seniority, or insert-your-favorite-disposition-here). I respect your choices and accomplishments about these things, but it's hard for me to remember to weave them into every sentence when it has nothing to do with the matter at hand. I've had quite a few fruitful and interesting discussions online without having to bring in gender, religion, age, sex, or any number of other irrelevant preferences into it. In most contexts, I don't see the point of making a point of any of those. I could call rank and require myself be called with all sorts of names (check my profile), but what would that benefit? I'm interested in your opinions; not on making you follow my rules.

teddyh 7y ago

Note: “Teddy” is usually short for “Theodore”, not “Robert”.

smsm42 7y ago

I have a somewhat unusual name for Anglosphere. Some people have trouble pronouncing it. When that happens, I don't attack them in a fit of rage, I either correct them or most frequently just ignore it. Sometimes - e.g. Starbucks and so on - I use English version of the name that I never use otherwise but that sounds close enough so I know they are calling me. I don't try to organize boycott of Starbucks and demand the state to make a law that under penalty of firing on the spot they have to pronounce my name absolutely correctly and with the right accent. I don't demand from people who don't know me to instantly know my name and never be confused about how to pronounce it - in fact, some of my friends sometimes mispronounce it and I don't have trouble with it because I know their language background makes it harder for them to express the right combination of sounds that the correct pronunciation in my native language requires. I don't demand venues to make rules that require everybody to learn my name and how to pronounce it and fire anybody who speaks around it because they can't remember it or have hard time to pronounce it. I know none of it is meant as an insult to me and none of people who have hard time properly pronouncing my name do it because they hate me and my whole ethnic background.

nullc 7y ago
Everyone has their quirks. If a friend breaks down crying on any mention of arbor day because their spouse died on arbor day... Someone might consider that response to be irrational, overly emotional, and/or inconvenient. But it would still be really unkind to fail to accommodate the friend. After all, it's easy to avoid mentioning arbor day 99.999% of the time. Life is hard for everyone, at least at times. When we can do something painless to avoid giving someone a bad day even if its an act that would be meaningless to us, why shouldn't we? Admitting that doesn't mean we're also required to accommodate when it's actually a problem, or that we're awful people if we don't know, forget, or make a mistake. It doesn't mean that we agree with or endorse their quirks... it's just a simple act of kindness and respect. It's also efficient, because there is almost always something better to get done than navigate some other person's emotional minefield that we avoidably upset.