4 ms·

This is a topic no one can talk about today. Previous discussions on this on HN quickly dropped off the page. I've always found the concept of preferred gender

This is a topic no one can talk about today. Previous discussions on this on HN quickly dropped off the page. I've always found the concept of preferred gender pronouns to be problematic from a pure technical perspective. But I was so afraid of the stigma I haven't really written about it. Recent events made me finally publish this last night: https://battlepenguin.com/philosophy/perspective/preferred-gender-pronouns/ https://battlepenguin.com/philosophy/perspective/preferred-g... The summary: pronouns reduce cognitive load, because you can refer to someone by a broad category. With custom pronouns, you now create a way to offend someone in the base language.

drdaeman 7y ago
Moreover, those personal pronouns are untranslatable. If someone’s wants to be referred as “xir” in English and use of “they” is considered offensive, there is no “politically correct” way to refer to such person in at least some non-English languages unless xir defines the pronouns for other languages too.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- rasengan0 7y ago
  Makes total sense https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/xir https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/xir
- Traster 7y ago
  I'm sorry I don't understand this argument. Let's say we're talking about something on a website, I say I want to be referred to by the pronoun "xir". "No,because I can't translate that into Swahili" seems like an odd response to me. It seems irrelevant to an average conversation I'm going to have. And even if you are planning to translate the conversation into another language you could just.... ask what would be reasonable in the other language?
  - drdaeman 7y ago
    Of course not, it wouldn't be a "no, you can't request this pronoun". It would be "sure, but mind you that I have no clue how to talk about you in non-English languages". And in some languages it's more than just the pronouns - for example, in some languages verbs may be declined according to a grammatical gender (a concept that almost doesn't exist in modern English and not really inferable from just "xir").
dwaltrip 7y ago
Have you ever met a single person who requested anything other than "he", "she", or "they"? Those aren't "custom pronouns". Are you pushing back against a real phenomena?
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  Once or twice. But everyone I've met who prefers Xe/Xir/Xirs will often append that with, "Or she/he/they. Fuck it, they're all wrong, use whatever makes you happy."
- loeg 7y ago
  Yes, there are real people asking for use of novel pronouns like "xe," "sir," "hir," etc, etc, etc.
  - dwaltrip 7y ago
    I know they exist. But how common is this? Is it actually worth spending any mental energy "worrying" about?
    - loeg 7y ago
      It's uncommon. I'm not especially worried about it myself.
    - apta 7y ago
      That's what they want you to do, because they think they're special somehow. Best is just ignore, and hopefully their house of cards will collapse at some point by their own doing.
- drdaeman 7y ago
  I've seen a few and that wasn't even online but in a meatspace, at a software conference. A few persons had bagdes with pronouns other than "he/she/they". Suppose that was a request of sorts. Although I haven't really talked to... err... such people ("them"? "xzem?" "xirzey'm?" what I'm supposed to use for "xe" and "ze" as a generalized group?), only saw that *ey (okay, does it work?) exist, so can't really tell more.
dang 7y ago
> Previous discussions on this on HN quickly dropped off the page. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21153224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21153224 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21167710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21167710.

drdaeman 7y ago

Moreover, those personal pronouns are untranslatable. If someone’s wants to be referred as “xir” in English and use of “they” is considered offensive, there is no “politically correct” way to refer to such person in at least some non-English languages unless xir defines the pronouns for other languages too.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
rasengan0 7y ago
Makes total sense https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/xir https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/xir
Traster 7y ago
I'm sorry I don't understand this argument. Let's say we're talking about something on a website, I say I want to be referred to by the pronoun "xir". "No,because I can't translate that into Swahili" seems like an odd response to me. It seems irrelevant to an average conversation I'm going to have. And even if you are planning to translate the conversation into another language you could just.... ask what would be reasonable in the other language?
- drdaeman 7y ago
  Of course not, it wouldn't be a "no, you can't request this pronoun". It would be "sure, but mind you that I have no clue how to talk about you in non-English languages". And in some languages it's more than just the pronouns - for example, in some languages verbs may be declined according to a grammatical gender (a concept that almost doesn't exist in modern English and not really inferable from just "xir").

dwaltrip 7y ago

Have you ever met a single person who requested anything other than "he", "she", or "they"? Those aren't "custom pronouns". Are you pushing back against a real phenomena?

Pfhreak 7y ago
Once or twice. But everyone I've met who prefers Xe/Xir/Xirs will often append that with, "Or she/he/they. Fuck it, they're all wrong, use whatever makes you happy."
loeg 7y ago
Yes, there are real people asking for use of novel pronouns like "xe," "sir," "hir," etc, etc, etc.
- dwaltrip 7y ago
  I know they exist. But how common is this? Is it actually worth spending any mental energy "worrying" about?
  - loeg 7y ago
    It's uncommon. I'm not especially worried about it myself.
  - apta 7y ago
    That's what they want you to do, because they think they're special somehow. Best is just ignore, and hopefully their house of cards will collapse at some point by their own doing.
drdaeman 7y ago
I've seen a few and that wasn't even online but in a meatspace, at a software conference. A few persons had bagdes with pronouns other than "he/she/they". Suppose that was a request of sorts. Although I haven't really talked to... err... such people ("them"? "xzem?" "xirzey'm?" what I'm supposed to use for "xe" and "ze" as a generalized group?), only saw that *ey (okay, does it work?) exist, so can't really tell more.

dang 7y ago

> Previous discussions on this on HN quickly dropped off the page. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21153224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21153224 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21167710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21167710.