4 ms·

More men are not needed in childcare/teaching because women are naturally - from birth - better at the type of empathy and communication that is required in tho

by sarkozy 16y ago

More men are not needed in childcare/teaching because women are naturally - from birth - better at the type of empathy and communication that is required in those fields. It's the same reason that women excel in technology management roles (while generally being inferior in technical roles because of inadequate training or aptitude, exceptional cases like Marissa Mayer excepted). Even a woman with average communication/empathy skills relative to other women (emphasis on 'empathy' - because this is what really separates men from women in communication) is often far better at management/planning than 99.99% of male technologists.

varjag 16y ago
I guess that's why most of the successful tech CEOs are female.
- sarkozy 16y ago
  You're defining 'successful' in monetary terms while I'm more concerned with the psychological health of the working environment. I'm saying women are better managers because they are less prone to the types of socially tone-deaf interpersonal problems you see lampooned in Dilbert. In other words, if I had to choose between a male manager who could create a succesful company versus a female manager who knew how to foster a harmonious working environment, I would choose the harmonious working environment over monetary "success" every time. In the end, what does it matter to me if the company I work for is financially successful or not? On the other hand, if my manager is able to help create an environment that is more pleasant for every involved, that's something I'm interested in and that's where I think women in general are more naturally capable than men.
  - varjag 16y ago
    Why yes, business success is defined in monetary terms. Good CEO brings good money to the company. But to bring it back to the subject, my son's kindergarten was 1/2 staffed by males (we're in Norway). He loved every minute of it.
axod 16y ago
In the 'olden' days, we used to have discipline in schools. So male teachers were extremely useful to have. Bad pupils used to get told off, disciplined, and snapped into line. Now, naughty kids get 'diagnosed' and given a cool label, get a 'teachers assistant' assigned to them - effectively praised for being naughty. I agree with your point about women excelling at empathy and communication, but I'd say the movement away from male teachers has also been due to the removal of discipline in schools, and a movement toward empathising with bad behavior rather than correcting it.
- sarkozy 16y ago
  I disagree that men are better at disciplining children than women are.
  - axod 16y ago
    I'm not saying always, but certainly at the schools I went to, the female teachers were by and large softer, and would let you get away with more. I think naturally, when faced with bad behavior women will try to empathize and reason, whereas men will tend to punish/kick into line.
    - sarkozy 16y ago
      You haven't met my mother.
    - barrkel 16y ago
      When I was a kid of 9 and in school, going into my first class with a male teacher, I had the same theory. It turned out I was wrong, though. My least favorite classes from then on out were all taught by women. It was like women had to be extra bitchy to maintain distance or something.
  - EliRivers 16y ago
    "More men are not needed in childcare/teaching because women are naturally - from birth - better at the type of empathy and communication that is required in those fields." If you empathise with someone, it is harder to cause them discomfort because it causes you discomfort also. Thus, someone with lesser empathy would be better at discipling children. "I disagree that men are better at disciplining children than women are." You can't have it both ways, Sarkozy. Which is it?
haploid 16y ago
Downvote the heretic! Unpopular opinions will not be tolerated! Oh, HN, you never fail to disappoint.
- Cushman 16y ago
  Public shaming is an appropriate response to prejudice. It's how we get from "that's common sense" to "does anyone really think that?"
  - sarkozy 16y ago
    But perhaps not an appropriate response to scientific fact. Countless psychological studies have documented women's higher innate capacities for communication and empathy. So if you disagree on that fact, you are simply misinformed. What I'm saying might not be popular and might even sound prejudicial but there is no debating the innate genetic differences between men and women.
    - Cushman 16y ago
      Really? Let's debate. Do you have a study documenting the case of a statistically significant number of children raised in an environment where every single other person isn't constantly treating them like they should behave a particular way because of their genitals? Because otherwise you're just redemonstrating the already well-documented fact that children tend to behave the way they are expected to behave, which doesn't tell us anything useful about genetics. Okay, that's a cheap shot. I know you don't have any such study. Tell you what, I'll settle for any study demonstrating that the divergence between the mean of all women and the mean of all men is greater than the divergence between individuals of either gender. In any metric.
      - krakensden 16y ago
        Height?
        16y ago
boons 16y ago
Are you saying women are, on average more empathethic/ have better communication skills, or women are innately 'guaranteed' to be better in these areas? Any man with the skills needed to perform well in childcare(especially) and teaching jobs are discouraged from taking those jobs, as any woman would 'naturally' be better in such roles (not to mention the significant 'pedo scare' barrier). This is the sort of latent discrimination that forces people away from the jobs they are best suited to.
- sarkozy 16y ago
  But the question is not about whether some men are suited to the job. It's about who is on average more suited to a particular type of job. It is well established scientifically that women are - generally speaking - so I would prefer to see more women taking roles that are suited to their innate capacities whether it be in technology management, education or any other role that takes advantage of their innate higher capacities in empathic communication.
- axod 16y ago
  That's silly. Most men will naturally also be able to lift heavy weights. That's not to say women aren't allowed to work in jobs where you need to lift big weights, but it'll be more natural for most men. The sexes have obvious physical differences, as well as obvious mental differences. To deny either of them is stupid.

by sarkozy 16y ago

varjag 16y ago

I guess that's why most of the successful tech CEOs are female.

sarkozy 16y ago
You're defining 'successful' in monetary terms while I'm more concerned with the psychological health of the working environment. I'm saying women are better managers because they are less prone to the types of socially tone-deaf interpersonal problems you see lampooned in Dilbert. In other words, if I had to choose between a male manager who could create a succesful company versus a female manager who knew how to foster a harmonious working environment, I would choose the harmonious working environment over monetary "success" every time. In the end, what does it matter to me if the company I work for is financially successful or not? On the other hand, if my manager is able to help create an environment that is more pleasant for every involved, that's something I'm interested in and that's where I think women in general are more naturally capable than men.
- varjag 16y ago
  Why yes, business success is defined in monetary terms. Good CEO brings good money to the company. But to bring it back to the subject, my son's kindergarten was 1/2 staffed by males (we're in Norway). He loved every minute of it.

axod 16y ago

In the 'olden' days, we used to have discipline in schools. So male teachers were extremely useful to have. Bad pupils used to get told off, disciplined, and snapped into line. Now, naughty kids get 'diagnosed' and given a cool label, get a 'teachers assistant' assigned to them - effectively praised for being naughty. I agree with your point about women excelling at empathy and communication, but I'd say the movement away from male teachers has also been due to the removal of discipline in schools, and a movement toward empathising with bad behavior rather than correcting it.

sarkozy 16y ago
I disagree that men are better at disciplining children than women are.
- axod 16y ago
  I'm not saying always, but certainly at the schools I went to, the female teachers were by and large softer, and would let you get away with more. I think naturally, when faced with bad behavior women will try to empathize and reason, whereas men will tend to punish/kick into line.
  - sarkozy 16y ago
    You haven't met my mother.
  - barrkel 16y ago
    When I was a kid of 9 and in school, going into my first class with a male teacher, I had the same theory. It turned out I was wrong, though. My least favorite classes from then on out were all taught by women. It was like women had to be extra bitchy to maintain distance or something.
- EliRivers 16y ago
  "More men are not needed in childcare/teaching because women are naturally - from birth - better at the type of empathy and communication that is required in those fields." If you empathise with someone, it is harder to cause them discomfort because it causes you discomfort also. Thus, someone with lesser empathy would be better at discipling children. "I disagree that men are better at disciplining children than women are." You can't have it both ways, Sarkozy. Which is it?

haploid 16y ago

Downvote the heretic! Unpopular opinions will not be tolerated! Oh, HN, you never fail to disappoint.

Cushman 16y ago
Public shaming is an appropriate response to prejudice. It's how we get from "that's common sense" to "does anyone really think that?"
- sarkozy 16y ago
  But perhaps not an appropriate response to scientific fact. Countless psychological studies have documented women's higher innate capacities for communication and empathy. So if you disagree on that fact, you are simply misinformed. What I'm saying might not be popular and might even sound prejudicial but there is no debating the innate genetic differences between men and women.
  - Cushman 16y ago
    Really? Let's debate. Do you have a study documenting the case of a statistically significant number of children raised in an environment where every single other person isn't constantly treating them like they should behave a particular way because of their genitals? Because otherwise you're just redemonstrating the already well-documented fact that children tend to behave the way they are expected to behave, which doesn't tell us anything useful about genetics. Okay, that's a cheap shot. I know you don't have any such study. Tell you what, I'll settle for any study demonstrating that the divergence between the mean of all women and the mean of all men is greater than the divergence between individuals of either gender. In any metric.
    - krakensden 16y ago
      Height?
      - 16y ago

boons 16y ago

Are you saying women are, on average more empathethic/ have better communication skills, or women are innately 'guaranteed' to be better in these areas? Any man with the skills needed to perform well in childcare(especially) and teaching jobs are discouraged from taking those jobs, as any woman would 'naturally' be better in such roles (not to mention the significant 'pedo scare' barrier). This is the sort of latent discrimination that forces people away from the jobs they are best suited to.

sarkozy 16y ago
But the question is not about whether some men are suited to the job. It's about who is on average more suited to a particular type of job. It is well established scientifically that women are - generally speaking - so I would prefer to see more women taking roles that are suited to their innate capacities whether it be in technology management, education or any other role that takes advantage of their innate higher capacities in empathic communication.
axod 16y ago
That's silly. Most men will naturally also be able to lift heavy weights. That's not to say women aren't allowed to work in jobs where you need to lift big weights, but it'll be more natural for most men. The sexes have obvious physical differences, as well as obvious mental differences. To deny either of them is stupid.