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It depends on what price you pay for Electricity, but paying for the electricity is more than half as cheap as paying for gas. Plus in the US there are so many

by npo9 7y ago

It depends on what price you pay for Electricity, but paying for the electricity is more than half as cheap as paying for gas. Plus in the US there are so many free chargers, I just charge my car at the office.

jfk13 7y ago
I have a suspicion that as electric cars become more common, free chargers will become less so. Providing free chargers (i.e. subsidizing people's driving expenses) may be great PR for businesses, municipalities, etc., as long as there are relatively few people using them, but will not be sustainable as demand increases. And as more people shift from ICE-powered vehicles to electric ones, it seems likely that some of the taxes currently imposed on gasoline may end up applying to electric charging as well, as governments will need to maintain the revenue somehow.
- ZeroGravitas 7y ago
  One counterbalancing force is renewables and using cars as part of demand response. If solar energy that would otherwise go to waste can be stored in cars, then that reduces the chance the car will need charged at another time and save the utility money. I can imagine plugs that you connect to for free when parked, that only give you as much power as they want but that will also let you buy express power when absolutely required via an app.
- greglindahl 7y ago
  Plenty of places already charge an equivalent to gas taxes for electric vehicles. In my US state, it's paid with your yearly registration. My city initially gave away free charging to lower air pollution, which wasn't on your list of reasons. 6 years after that start, they've started charging.
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    Yeah, I pay over double to the state for my electric car in extra EV taxes than I would for state gas taxes. It's actually punitive for EV owners (ostensibly because they're "rich," but I bought mine used and am definitely not rich).
- maxsilver 7y ago
  > I have a suspicion that as electric cars become more common, free chargers will become less so. (Free charging) will not be sustainable as demand increases. For "superchargers" and other fast charging, I agree. But slower L2 entry-level chargers are so cheap, and electricity so cheap, I don't see free charging going away entirely. Already in Michigan, it's cheaper to just give away free L2 charging to anyone who wants it, than it costs to keep the lot clear of snow in the winter. I suspect slow charging will become similar to Salt / Sugar packets in restaurants. Free basically anywhere that abuse or insane land costs aren't a problem (so free basically everywhere except major cities)
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    Yup. And equivalent to providing free parking. You have a captive audience, and the price isn't high. Any time I use one of those "free" level 2 chargers, I always buy something where it's possible to do so. You're only talking like one or two dollars worth of electricity (I think people who don't have electric cars don't realize this), and then only if I stay an hour or three. If I could seemlessly pay about 120% of my residential rate to slow charge, I would for convenience sake alone. But no one has really figured this out, yet.
    - maxsilver 7y ago
      > You're only talking like one or two dollars worth of electricity (I think people who don't have electric cars don't realize this), Yeah, I get the impression a lot of people don't really know what electricity costs. Like, they know what their monthly utility bill is, but they probably don't know what that bill was really for, in any measurable units. If someone (for example), charges at a L2 charger @ 3.3kw at a restaurant for an hour, in the state of Michigan, they've used up about 53 cents worth of electricity. That's all the restaurant paid for that electricity. For that 53 cents, their car probably got an extra 10 to 13 miles of range.
      - Robotbeat 7y ago
        Right. The cost of the electricity for L2 charging is much less than the fully burdened price of providing free parking (or using the bathroom, etc).

by npo9 7y ago

jfk13 7y ago

I have a suspicion that as electric cars become more common, free chargers will become less so. Providing free chargers (i.e. subsidizing people's driving expenses) may be great PR for businesses, municipalities, etc., as long as there are relatively few people using them, but will not be sustainable as demand increases. And as more people shift from ICE-powered vehicles to electric ones, it seems likely that some of the taxes currently imposed on gasoline may end up applying to electric charging as well, as governments will need to maintain the revenue somehow.

ZeroGravitas 7y ago
One counterbalancing force is renewables and using cars as part of demand response. If solar energy that would otherwise go to waste can be stored in cars, then that reduces the chance the car will need charged at another time and save the utility money. I can imagine plugs that you connect to for free when parked, that only give you as much power as they want but that will also let you buy express power when absolutely required via an app.
greglindahl 7y ago
Plenty of places already charge an equivalent to gas taxes for electric vehicles. In my US state, it's paid with your yearly registration. My city initially gave away free charging to lower air pollution, which wasn't on your list of reasons. 6 years after that start, they've started charging.
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  Yeah, I pay over double to the state for my electric car in extra EV taxes than I would for state gas taxes. It's actually punitive for EV owners (ostensibly because they're "rich," but I bought mine used and am definitely not rich).
maxsilver 7y ago
> I have a suspicion that as electric cars become more common, free chargers will become less so. (Free charging) will not be sustainable as demand increases. For "superchargers" and other fast charging, I agree. But slower L2 entry-level chargers are so cheap, and electricity so cheap, I don't see free charging going away entirely. Already in Michigan, it's cheaper to just give away free L2 charging to anyone who wants it, than it costs to keep the lot clear of snow in the winter. I suspect slow charging will become similar to Salt / Sugar packets in restaurants. Free basically anywhere that abuse or insane land costs aren't a problem (so free basically everywhere except major cities)
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  Yup. And equivalent to providing free parking. You have a captive audience, and the price isn't high. Any time I use one of those "free" level 2 chargers, I always buy something where it's possible to do so. You're only talking like one or two dollars worth of electricity (I think people who don't have electric cars don't realize this), and then only if I stay an hour or three. If I could seemlessly pay about 120% of my residential rate to slow charge, I would for convenience sake alone. But no one has really figured this out, yet.
  - maxsilver 7y ago
    > You're only talking like one or two dollars worth of electricity (I think people who don't have electric cars don't realize this), Yeah, I get the impression a lot of people don't really know what electricity costs. Like, they know what their monthly utility bill is, but they probably don't know what that bill was really for, in any measurable units. If someone (for example), charges at a L2 charger @ 3.3kw at a restaurant for an hour, in the state of Michigan, they've used up about 53 cents worth of electricity. That's all the restaurant paid for that electricity. For that 53 cents, their car probably got an extra 10 to 13 miles of range.
    - Robotbeat 7y ago
      Right. The cost of the electricity for L2 charging is much less than the fully burdened price of providing free parking (or using the bathroom, etc).