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Yes, and no. I'm afraid you've missed the point of the article. It's not about blame, but about good design that prevents human death. (Mainly) in Western cult

Yes, and no. I'm afraid you've missed the point of the article. It's not about blame, but about good design that prevents human death. (Mainly) in Western culture, humans tend to believe that what other people do reflects their personality, responsibility etc., and disregard the extent to which the environment influences people. This is called the "fundamental attribution error". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error The point of the article is that the existing environment makes it easier for people - both drivers, and pedestrians/cyclists - to suffer gravely in the event they get distracted. It's unreasonable to expect people not to get distracted - you can think of it as "baseline" level of distraction inherent to us all, which cannot be optimised beyond a certain point. It's a much better solution to shape the environment so that people's distractions do not cost lives. _That_ is the point of the article.

maxaf 7y ago
I didn’t miss the point of the article; I simply strongly disagree with it. I oppose the constant drive to diminish the need to act responsibly. The idea of “baseline distraction” is used to provide an excuse for killing and maiming other humans. If your loved one were killed by a “baseline distracted” driver who blamed the collision on vehicle and road design, would you consider it fair? Would you willingly lay your child, spouse, or parent on the sacrificial pyre signaling the need for better cars or roads? Life isn’t some kind of A/B experiment. Stop treating it like one, and stop moving blame from yourself to others.
- blue_devil 7y ago
  >>stop moving blame from yourself to others. I don't drive though. This article argues for preventing deaths, not litigating them. What's the use of assigning blame after the fact? You cannot force people to be more perfect than they are (or want to be). You can "nudge" the right outcome by shaping the environment. If you google "chicanes in London", you'll see how people's behaviour can be shaped, regardless of their personality. _That_ is what you want, to ensure people's safety.
  - maxaf 7y ago
    If people can be nudged by street design or transparent B-pillars, they can also be nudged by heavy penalties that are commensurate with the deed.
    - piptastic 7y ago
      Which is why there are no murders in states with a death penalty.
      - greggman2 7y ago
        It seems like you're effectively saying MADD didn't work. Drunk driving never became less than it was in the late 1970s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothers_Against_Drunk_Driving https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothers_Against_Drunk_Driving The claim they lowered drunk driving deaths by 1/2. I have no easy way to verify that but if true it certainly suggests people's behavior can be changed
        chongli 7y ago
        I don't know about your area, but where I live the police set up checkpoints along common routes home from popular bars/restaurants to catch drunk drivers. Drunk drivers get caught extremely often and many of them lose their licence for long periods of time. This does not discourage drunk driving as much as you would think. It does remove a lot of the drunk drivers from the road by force, however.
        beerandt 7y ago
        MADD only worked in the sense that it made some mothers feel somewhat absolved of whatever guilt they felt for losing a child. Their statistical claims are quite ridiculous, though. Edit: Claiming credit moreso than flawed statistics, although both are highly questionable.
      - scottlocklin 7y ago
        Enforcement works in societies which actually enforce their laws. Try finding weed in Singapore for example.
- rchaves 7y ago
  So you really think not enough punishment explains away the fact that US has double the accidents then Europe? If you don’t, then you did miss the point People are not as rational as you think, making them more scared of the law don’t help much, otherwise death penalty would work very well to reduce crimes, but it doesn’t
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

maxaf 7y ago

I didn’t miss the point of the article; I simply strongly disagree with it. I oppose the constant drive to diminish the need to act responsibly. The idea of “baseline distraction” is used to provide an excuse for killing and maiming other humans. If your loved one were killed by a “baseline distracted” driver who blamed the collision on vehicle and road design, would you consider it fair? Would you willingly lay your child, spouse, or parent on the sacrificial pyre signaling the need for better cars or roads? Life isn’t some kind of A/B experiment. Stop treating it like one, and stop moving blame from yourself to others.

blue_devil 7y ago
>>stop moving blame from yourself to others. I don't drive though. This article argues for preventing deaths, not litigating them. What's the use of assigning blame after the fact? You cannot force people to be more perfect than they are (or want to be). You can "nudge" the right outcome by shaping the environment. If you google "chicanes in London", you'll see how people's behaviour can be shaped, regardless of their personality. _That_ is what you want, to ensure people's safety.
- maxaf 7y ago
  If people can be nudged by street design or transparent B-pillars, they can also be nudged by heavy penalties that are commensurate with the deed.
  - piptastic 7y ago
    Which is why there are no murders in states with a death penalty.
    - greggman2 7y ago
      It seems like you're effectively saying MADD didn't work. Drunk driving never became less than it was in the late 1970s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothers_Against_Drunk_Driving https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothers_Against_Drunk_Driving The claim they lowered drunk driving deaths by 1/2. I have no easy way to verify that but if true it certainly suggests people's behavior can be changed
      - chongli 7y ago
        I don't know about your area, but where I live the police set up checkpoints along common routes home from popular bars/restaurants to catch drunk drivers. Drunk drivers get caught extremely often and many of them lose their licence for long periods of time. This does not discourage drunk driving as much as you would think. It does remove a lot of the drunk drivers from the road by force, however.
      - beerandt 7y ago
        MADD only worked in the sense that it made some mothers feel somewhat absolved of whatever guilt they felt for losing a child. Their statistical claims are quite ridiculous, though. Edit: Claiming credit moreso than flawed statistics, although both are highly questionable.
    - scottlocklin 7y ago
      Enforcement works in societies which actually enforce their laws. Try finding weed in Singapore for example.
rchaves 7y ago
So you really think not enough punishment explains away the fact that US has double the accidents then Europe? If you don’t, then you did miss the point People are not as rational as you think, making them more scared of the law don’t help much, otherwise death penalty would work very well to reduce crimes, but it doesn’t
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]