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The only condescension I see in Haskell-related discussion is condescension towards Haskellers, claiming that Haskellers are condescending and say condescending
by AnthonBerg 7y ago
The only condescension I see in Haskell-related discussion is condescension towards Haskellers, claiming that Haskellers are condescending and say condescending things like writing condescending tutorials.
As I see it it’s actually not very nice.
With the utmost respect, truly, humbly: I am against this custom that it’s just fine to call well-meaning people for condescending. As it appears to me, claiming condescendence is more of a statement of the claimant, but this is still an unfortunate custom. Who are we really to claim condescension? Really?
The article linked to in the post starts off with quotes from people who directly state that they feel like they would need to be smarter to use Haskell. It’s a common thing. The article addresses that. It is literally the opposite of condescension.
Then there’s the burrito tutorials with pictures. I for one actually think in weird abstract sloppy metaphors and colors. My head really is full of burritos and inaccuracies. I was helped enormously by the burrito concept. Textbooks generally don’t speak in burritos. I work with people to whom the burrito class of analogies is not helpful. They think in a more direct and crystalline way. I wish I were more like them. And I try try to be. And I can. And it makes me better. And I really do think I also bring something to the table by spraying flaming burrito concepts and lateral jumps into the team zeitgeist.
- goto11 7y ago> I was helped enormously by the burrito concept. OK fair enough, I can only speak for myself and the way I learn concepts. The way I learn a new language or platform is always to try to write a real program that does something. I am only able to lean concepts when I can see their usefulness. But I should recognize that other people learn in different ways.
- AnthonBerg 7y agoI want to add that I actually do see how it comes across as condescending. After this exchange and thinking about what you wrote. idk, like, “Here, look at these kiddie pictures, those are suitable for you, and then I’ll withhold the real work ok?”
- platz 7y ago> My head really is full of burritos Not such a bad life, if you ask me.
- ska 7y agoThe only condescension I see in Haskell-related discussion is condescension towards Haskellers, fwiw I've heard exactly the same claims by and about lispers.
- goto11 7y agoAnd sometimes justified too. But in a different way. You don't see lispers ensuring us "You are smart enough to learn Lisp" because Lisp is quite easy to get started with. And you don't usually see lispers trying to be "friendly" by communicating in children's language.
- ska 7y agooffered without judgement: https://www.amazon.com/Land-Lisp-Learn-Program-Game/dp/1593272812 https://www.amazon.com/Land-Lisp-Learn-Program-Game/dp/15932...
- goto11 7y agoI was wrong. And that book even looks interesting!
- lispm 7y agoLOGO, the children's Lisp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_(programming_language)