4 ms·

And how many people dropped out of CS because of that first Haskell course? I saw plenty of people struggling with Python initially and I know exactly how they

And how many people dropped out of CS because of that first Haskell course? I saw plenty of people struggling with Python initially and I know exactly how they felt later when we had to learn Haskell. I think if I had to learn Haskell first, then I would've just given up at the start.

alkonaut 7y ago
I think they deliberately did some really “rough” math and CS classes up front because they knew some would drop out and they preferred them to drop in the first few weeks so someone could take their spot.
thrower123 7y ago
Yeah, my university did something similar. The very first computer science course was a bog-standard Java course - this was often an elective that engineers or science folks took also. The first CS-specific course used Haskell, and it probably turned off 75% of the people that tried taking it.
nh2 7y ago
Where I did my CS degree (Imperial College London) , Haskell is the first language taught (before Java and C). To my knowledge across 4 years there, nobody ever dropped out because of the Haskell. People usually struggled with the maths instead. People also did not have more problems getting Haskell concepts right than linked list modification in Java.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  They might not drop out specifically because of Haskell, but I don't see how it wouldn't be a contributing factor. The Haskell course here was pretty much just a struggle for almost everyone that took it.
  - Jhsto 7y ago
    Mind the opposite: finishing a bachelor's without ever having to deal with a functional language. I've met a lot of people (at work and post-grad) who have graduated from colleges without an idea of what a functional language is or the concepts behind them. I don't blame them, but its a pity to find so many workarounds in legacy code which could have benefited from functions as parameters and less state in general.
K0nserv 7y ago
My university(Gothenburg University) did this for the CS course. Haskell does a very good job at levelling the playing field since it was new even to those who had prior programming experience. As I recall about 40 people out of 70 did drop out during the first semester.
- SomeHacker44 7y ago
  I really hate the concept of "weed out" courses. That is the opposite if what colleges should be doing. We had plenty of them in the sciences almost 30 years ago when I started. We need to make everyone welcome in sciences, not weed people out with overly complex 101 courses. We had Haskell in college too, almost 30 years ago, and even then it was one of the hardest courses at school. This was before IO monad, just as the language was being created in the early 90s.
  - alkonaut 7y ago
    To be clear: I don't think anyone actually dropped out because of a tiny Haskell class. A lot of people did drop out because they hated math and failed the first couple of courses.
  - auggierose 7y ago
    Anyone who cannot do a Haskell class probably shouldn't become a software engineer. Better software that way.
    - tome 7y ago
      Seems a bit harsh.
      - tasuki 7y ago
        Of course it's harsh! But perhaps also true?
        AnimalMuppet 7y ago

alkonaut 7y ago

I think they deliberately did some really “rough” math and CS classes up front because they knew some would drop out and they preferred them to drop in the first few weeks so someone could take their spot.

thrower123 7y ago

Yeah, my university did something similar. The very first computer science course was a bog-standard Java course - this was often an elective that engineers or science folks took also. The first CS-specific course used Haskell, and it probably turned off 75% of the people that tried taking it.

nh2 7y ago

Where I did my CS degree (Imperial College London) , Haskell is the first language taught (before Java and C). To my knowledge across 4 years there, nobody ever dropped out because of the Haskell. People usually struggled with the maths instead. People also did not have more problems getting Haskell concepts right than linked list modification in Java.

Mirioron 7y ago
They might not drop out specifically because of Haskell, but I don't see how it wouldn't be a contributing factor. The Haskell course here was pretty much just a struggle for almost everyone that took it.
- Jhsto 7y ago
  Mind the opposite: finishing a bachelor's without ever having to deal with a functional language. I've met a lot of people (at work and post-grad) who have graduated from colleges without an idea of what a functional language is or the concepts behind them. I don't blame them, but its a pity to find so many workarounds in legacy code which could have benefited from functions as parameters and less state in general.

K0nserv 7y ago

My university(Gothenburg University) did this for the CS course. Haskell does a very good job at levelling the playing field since it was new even to those who had prior programming experience. As I recall about 40 people out of 70 did drop out during the first semester.

SomeHacker44 7y ago
I really hate the concept of "weed out" courses. That is the opposite if what colleges should be doing. We had plenty of them in the sciences almost 30 years ago when I started. We need to make everyone welcome in sciences, not weed people out with overly complex 101 courses. We had Haskell in college too, almost 30 years ago, and even then it was one of the hardest courses at school. This was before IO monad, just as the language was being created in the early 90s.
- alkonaut 7y ago
  To be clear: I don't think anyone actually dropped out because of a tiny Haskell class. A lot of people did drop out because they hated math and failed the first couple of courses.
- auggierose 7y ago
  Anyone who cannot do a Haskell class probably shouldn't become a software engineer. Better software that way.
  - tome 7y ago
    Seems a bit harsh.
    - tasuki 7y ago
      Of course it's harsh! But perhaps also true?
      - AnimalMuppet 7y ago