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Tesla also has a final assembly plant in the Netherlands[1], nominally making the brand "native" (like Volvo before them). That usually results in better brand

Tesla also has a final assembly plant in the Netherlands[1], nominally making the brand "native" (like Volvo before them). That usually results in better brand recognition and higher sales as well. I recently saw a post on social media where someone couldn't go to the dentist because the car was updating software. From the discussion I understand there is a "grace period" of 2 weeks before automatic updates, and that the software is needed for advanced features. It was also mentioned that basic braking and steering functionality were also dependent on updatable software, making it unsafe to use it as a regular car when a software update is occurring. Does anyone have more information on this? [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_facilities_in_Tilburg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_facilities_in_Tilburg

mmsimanga 7y ago
As an African I really want an electric car that just has a speedometer, airbags, range meter and nothing else. I can do without air condition, outside temperature sensor ... We already struggling to fix the modern petrol and diesel cars full of electronics.
- markdown 7y ago
  Even the old 3rd world favourite, the Toyota Hilux, has gone over to the dark side and become much harder to repair with all the fancy shit they stick in them now.
  - mmsimanga 7y ago
    I know exactly what you mean. Now we forced to go the dealers who charge exorbitant prices for simple things like replacing a light. Sigh I miss the old days when you just pulled out the globe and asked for a replacement.
  - mcv 7y ago
    I thought it was the Toyota Land Cruiser that was the old favourite. When I was in Mali (in 2006), those things were everywhere. Waiting for the ferry across the Niger at Timbuctoo was a long line of Land Cruisers and a single Hilux. Along the way (not really a way, actually, but everybody was going roughly the same route) we encountered tons more Land Cruisers. Only a single Mitsubishi 4WD, which had broken down. Rumour had it that if your Land Cruiser broke down in the desert, you could probably buy parts from a guy on a camel. But that's not going to be much use if they're getting harder to repair.
    - markdown 7y ago
      Well both really. In my part of the developing world it was the Hilux. The LN106 and then LN166 (the last to be built in Japan) were awesome and ubiquitous. Quality seems to have declined (anecdotally) after they started making them in Thailand, but then worse... they started filing them up with fancy electronics to target urban dwellers.
- kmlx 7y ago
  get the honda e: https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/honda-e/overview.html https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/honda-e/overview.html tested it and it's truly a marvel.
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    Nice, RWD too!
  - EForEndeavour 7y ago
    I didn't know this existed - specs look interesting! ...But god, it looks so goofy for no reason whatsoever. The trend of intentionally unconventional-looking EVs continues to baffle me. It's possible to stand out while not looking dumpy/derpy.
    - Marsymars 7y ago
      I thought that was going to be much worse before clicking, akin to the VW XL1 for aerodynamics. To me, it looks pretty similar in "weirdness" to other small cars like a Fiat 500 or Mini.
      - EForEndeavour 7y ago
        Whoa, I hadn't seen the VW XL1. The covered rear wheels look annoying, but my first reaction to it is "cool!"
- crucio 7y ago
  You may be interested in following Sono motors.https://sonomotors.com/en/sion/ https://sonomotors.com/en/sion/ They are making a much simpler electric car with the ethos that anyone can fix it, with readily available parts and manuals/blueprints for every part of the car. I am excited by it having solar panels as my average daily drive is probably in the region of 10 miles.
  - mmsimanga 7y ago
    This looks like a perfect car for Africa. We have plenty of sun for solar charging component of the car. We really do not have the money to build out our power grid and if we can use solar panels for charging stations it make rolling out charging stations easier. The price though is still out of reach for most of us.
    - clouddrover 7y ago
      Renault's doing a low cost EV. You don't get much range but it's good for the money. They'll sell them in China first: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/29729/the-worlds-most-important-electric-car-is-launching-now-and-its-not-a-porsche-or-tesla https://www.thedrive.com/tech/29729/the-worlds-most-importan...
- _ph_ 7y ago
  Fixing older cars with electronic problems is a nightmare everywhere. It is pretty much depending on getting the original spares which manufacturers might just stop providing at some time (and sometimes they get caught by some chip no longer being available). On the other side, considering how many videos I see on youTube about people using batteries and electric motors from salvaged Teslas to build their own electric cars/conversions to electric, the technology seems to be quite hackable. In the end, an electric motor is easy to control and a battery is just a battery. So even a homegrown controller should be quite feasible, compared to managing ignition on a modern combustion engine. I think the electric cars are rather going to trigger a wave of new small car companies emerging, as most of the required technology is quite commonplace. Which also should make maintenance and repair easier.
  - goodcanadian 7y ago
    So even a homegrown controller should be quite feasible . . . You might be interested in: http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=gevcu6 http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=gevcu6 Source code: https://github.com/collin80/GEVCU https://github.com/collin80/GEVCU
vinay427 7y ago
The car notifies you if an update is available, when you can postpone it, and IIRC you also receive a notification on your phone before it starts at which point you can also postpone it. Also, it tells you the estimated duration of the update in minutes and specifically notes that you will likely not be able to use the car during this time. Also, braking and steering should be dependent on software. This is the case in most modern cars, though those don't always have OTA updates. It means these can be changed and improved over time. I can definitely see someone who had auto-update not realizing their car will start the update before they need it, but I think they've chosen a decent balance between keeping users up-to-date and making sure your car is available when you need it.
- craigsmansion 7y ago
  > braking and steering should be dependent on software. That's an opinion and that's fine, but I was wondering if it was the case, i.e., they are dependent on software. > This is the case in most modern cars By `this' you mean "basic steering and braking functionality depending on upgradable software", right?
  - vinay427 7y ago
    > That's an opinion and that's fine, but I was wondering if it was the case, i.e., they are dependent on software. Yeah, sorry, this is definitely an opinion and I don't think I actually agree with that in general. I meant that in the case of a Tesla or many modern cars with autonomous emergency braking or lane-drift avoidance or similar, braking and/or steering is generally software-controlled, often without a mechanical default, so given features like Autopilot it "should" be software-dependent. > By `this' you mean "basic steering and braking functionality depending on upgradable software", right? Yes, but just to reiterate, most manufacturers don't use OTAs and some models never receive an update, but it's not uncommon for an update to change steering and/or braking response and feel.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  A decent balance would be facilitating an interrupt/rollback of the update at any time. If you need the car now, and it's updating, it should be trivial to halt the update and operate the car on its previous software version. Storage is cheap nowadays, there's no reason to not have versioned copies of every operational software version across the vehicle.
markdown 7y ago
> I recently saw a post on social media where someone couldn't go to the dentist because the car was updating software. Nice. I wish the only cost of getting a free upgrade to my vehicle was that I'd have to take a taxi every now and then.
- blub 7y ago
  That's not the only cost. We'll start seeing the real cost when these internet-connected and internet-updateable vehicles inevitably get hacked. It's lunacy to do OTA updates for cars, but here we are. And other manufacturers are following.
zaroth 7y ago
Once a software update is available for your car, the car will automatically download it when you are connected via WiFi. Once the update it downloaded, it will notify you on the in car display and on your phone an update is ready to install. You can then either schedule a time when it should be installed in the future (e.g. middle of the night), click to start the install immediately, or ignore the update for as long as you want. When you click to install, it begins a 2:00 minute countdown timer which allows you to cancel before the install starts. It says very clearly how long the update will take and that it can’t be canceled while it’s installing. You cannot drive the car while the update is running. If someone missed their dentist appointment because of a software update, it’s because they intentionally ran the update just before needing to use the car.
vsl 7y ago
> Tesla also has a final assembly plant in the Netherlands[1] It's five years old; hardly warrants "finally". It is also not used for this purpose (assembly to avoid tariffs) with the more mass-market Model 3. > I recently saw a post on social media where someone couldn't go to the dentist because the car was updating software. A moron or liar. The software doesn't update on its own, requires explicit action by the user - and warns you how long it's going to take to do the update. > It was also mentioned that basic braking and steering functionality were also dependent on updatable software As in pretty much any modern car… > making it unsafe to use it as a regular car when a software update is occurring. It is impossible to install updates while driving. A bit of common sense, please - _no_ car manufacturer is incompetent enough to update the software while the vehicle is in use.

mmsimanga 7y ago

As an African I really want an electric car that just has a speedometer, airbags, range meter and nothing else. I can do without air condition, outside temperature sensor ... We already struggling to fix the modern petrol and diesel cars full of electronics.

markdown 7y ago
Even the old 3rd world favourite, the Toyota Hilux, has gone over to the dark side and become much harder to repair with all the fancy shit they stick in them now.
- mmsimanga 7y ago
  I know exactly what you mean. Now we forced to go the dealers who charge exorbitant prices for simple things like replacing a light. Sigh I miss the old days when you just pulled out the globe and asked for a replacement.
- mcv 7y ago
  I thought it was the Toyota Land Cruiser that was the old favourite. When I was in Mali (in 2006), those things were everywhere. Waiting for the ferry across the Niger at Timbuctoo was a long line of Land Cruisers and a single Hilux. Along the way (not really a way, actually, but everybody was going roughly the same route) we encountered tons more Land Cruisers. Only a single Mitsubishi 4WD, which had broken down. Rumour had it that if your Land Cruiser broke down in the desert, you could probably buy parts from a guy on a camel. But that's not going to be much use if they're getting harder to repair.
  - markdown 7y ago
    Well both really. In my part of the developing world it was the Hilux. The LN106 and then LN166 (the last to be built in Japan) were awesome and ubiquitous. Quality seems to have declined (anecdotally) after they started making them in Thailand, but then worse... they started filing them up with fancy electronics to target urban dwellers.
kmlx 7y ago
get the honda e: https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/honda-e/overview.html https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/honda-e/overview.html tested it and it's truly a marvel.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  Nice, RWD too!
- EForEndeavour 7y ago
  I didn't know this existed - specs look interesting! ...But god, it looks so goofy for no reason whatsoever. The trend of intentionally unconventional-looking EVs continues to baffle me. It's possible to stand out while not looking dumpy/derpy.
  - Marsymars 7y ago
    I thought that was going to be much worse before clicking, akin to the VW XL1 for aerodynamics. To me, it looks pretty similar in "weirdness" to other small cars like a Fiat 500 or Mini.
    - EForEndeavour 7y ago
      Whoa, I hadn't seen the VW XL1. The covered rear wheels look annoying, but my first reaction to it is "cool!"
crucio 7y ago
You may be interested in following Sono motors.https://sonomotors.com/en/sion/ https://sonomotors.com/en/sion/ They are making a much simpler electric car with the ethos that anyone can fix it, with readily available parts and manuals/blueprints for every part of the car. I am excited by it having solar panels as my average daily drive is probably in the region of 10 miles.
- mmsimanga 7y ago
  This looks like a perfect car for Africa. We have plenty of sun for solar charging component of the car. We really do not have the money to build out our power grid and if we can use solar panels for charging stations it make rolling out charging stations easier. The price though is still out of reach for most of us.
  - clouddrover 7y ago
    Renault's doing a low cost EV. You don't get much range but it's good for the money. They'll sell them in China first: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/29729/the-worlds-most-important-electric-car-is-launching-now-and-its-not-a-porsche-or-tesla https://www.thedrive.com/tech/29729/the-worlds-most-importan...
_ph_ 7y ago
Fixing older cars with electronic problems is a nightmare everywhere. It is pretty much depending on getting the original spares which manufacturers might just stop providing at some time (and sometimes they get caught by some chip no longer being available). On the other side, considering how many videos I see on youTube about people using batteries and electric motors from salvaged Teslas to build their own electric cars/conversions to electric, the technology seems to be quite hackable. In the end, an electric motor is easy to control and a battery is just a battery. So even a homegrown controller should be quite feasible, compared to managing ignition on a modern combustion engine. I think the electric cars are rather going to trigger a wave of new small car companies emerging, as most of the required technology is quite commonplace. Which also should make maintenance and repair easier.
- goodcanadian 7y ago
  So even a homegrown controller should be quite feasible . . . You might be interested in: http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=gevcu6 http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=gevcu6 Source code: https://github.com/collin80/GEVCU https://github.com/collin80/GEVCU

vinay427 7y ago

The car notifies you if an update is available, when you can postpone it, and IIRC you also receive a notification on your phone before it starts at which point you can also postpone it. Also, it tells you the estimated duration of the update in minutes and specifically notes that you will likely not be able to use the car during this time. Also, braking and steering should be dependent on software. This is the case in most modern cars, though those don't always have OTA updates. It means these can be changed and improved over time. I can definitely see someone who had auto-update not realizing their car will start the update before they need it, but I think they've chosen a decent balance between keeping users up-to-date and making sure your car is available when you need it.

craigsmansion 7y ago
> braking and steering should be dependent on software. That's an opinion and that's fine, but I was wondering if it was the case, i.e., they are dependent on software. > This is the case in most modern cars By `this' you mean "basic steering and braking functionality depending on upgradable software", right?
- vinay427 7y ago
  > That's an opinion and that's fine, but I was wondering if it was the case, i.e., they are dependent on software. Yeah, sorry, this is definitely an opinion and I don't think I actually agree with that in general. I meant that in the case of a Tesla or many modern cars with autonomous emergency braking or lane-drift avoidance or similar, braking and/or steering is generally software-controlled, often without a mechanical default, so given features like Autopilot it "should" be software-dependent. > By `this' you mean "basic steering and braking functionality depending on upgradable software", right? Yes, but just to reiterate, most manufacturers don't use OTAs and some models never receive an update, but it's not uncommon for an update to change steering and/or braking response and feel.
newnewpdro 7y ago
A decent balance would be facilitating an interrupt/rollback of the update at any time. If you need the car now, and it's updating, it should be trivial to halt the update and operate the car on its previous software version. Storage is cheap nowadays, there's no reason to not have versioned copies of every operational software version across the vehicle.

markdown 7y ago

> I recently saw a post on social media where someone couldn't go to the dentist because the car was updating software. Nice. I wish the only cost of getting a free upgrade to my vehicle was that I'd have to take a taxi every now and then.

blub 7y ago
That's not the only cost. We'll start seeing the real cost when these internet-connected and internet-updateable vehicles inevitably get hacked. It's lunacy to do OTA updates for cars, but here we are. And other manufacturers are following.

zaroth 7y ago

Once a software update is available for your car, the car will automatically download it when you are connected via WiFi. Once the update it downloaded, it will notify you on the in car display and on your phone an update is ready to install. You can then either schedule a time when it should be installed in the future (e.g. middle of the night), click to start the install immediately, or ignore the update for as long as you want. When you click to install, it begins a 2:00 minute countdown timer which allows you to cancel before the install starts. It says very clearly how long the update will take and that it can’t be canceled while it’s installing. You cannot drive the car while the update is running. If someone missed their dentist appointment because of a software update, it’s because they intentionally ran the update just before needing to use the car.

vsl 7y ago

> Tesla also has a final assembly plant in the Netherlands[1] It's five years old; hardly warrants "finally". It is also not used for this purpose (assembly to avoid tariffs) with the more mass-market Model 3. > I recently saw a post on social media where someone couldn't go to the dentist because the car was updating software. A moron or liar. The software doesn't update on its own, requires explicit action by the user - and warns you how long it's going to take to do the update. > It was also mentioned that basic braking and steering functionality were also dependent on updatable software As in pretty much any modern car… > making it unsafe to use it as a regular car when a software update is occurring. It is impossible to install updates while driving. A bit of common sense, please - _no_ car manufacturer is incompetent enough to update the software while the vehicle is in use.