4 ms·

This is not a both sides issue. The medical fields moved to complete affirmation of trans identities a while ago because the scientific evidence for trans affir

This is not a both sides issue. The medical fields moved to complete affirmation of trans identities a while ago because the scientific evidence for trans affirmation is overwhelming -- literally everything from mental health outcomes to surgery regret rates indicates that. The other side is both bigoted and factually wrong.

Invictus0 7y ago
This is exactly my point. The other side looks at you and says you're wrong with equal conviction and their own bevy of justifications. Since you and the other side can't mutually agree on some set of axioms of worldview, both sides' "facts" just become opinions.
- damnyou 7y ago
  Yes, and at that point the only way out is to: 1. keep the door open for anyone who wishes to change their mind 2. wrest power from everyone else -- workplace by workplace, jurisdiction by jurisdiction, culture by culture. The pro-trans side is true, and sometimes truth has to go to war to win.
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago
  The presence of two opposed positions does not imply that they're both equally plausible. For example: one group believes in evolution, another believes God created the Earth out of nothing 6000 years ago. Without a time machine, neither one can categorically prove exactly what happened. But one side has mountains of evidence, and the other has dogma and ideology. There's a lot we don't understand yet about how being trans works, just as there's plenty of gaps in the fossil record that we haven't been able to fill yet. But if you ignore all the evidence we do have in favor of cherry-picking only the isolated studies that might support your position, you're no better than the people who think that the scarcity of transitional fossils refutes evolution.
tmp20191006cars 7y ago
This is because the sex reseachers with a different view were forced out of their jobs by intense activism.
- damnyou 7y ago
  They were forced out because they put hetero/cisnormative society's interests over their patients'. Their main goal always was to fit their patients into society rather than advocate for society to accept greater gender diversity.
anon12345690 7y ago
literally none of it does. what you just said is factually wrong. trans is a mental disorder and never stopped being that. some far-left activists are trying to say its not but that doesnt change the science. calling everyone a "bigot" doesnt change anything either other than show people that you arent reasonable and put feelings over facts
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago
  Most of the medical community disagrees with you. You're allowed to believe whatever you want. Science doesn't care about your feelings. Cherry-picking only the studies that can be interpreted to support your opinion, while ignoring the balance of the research that disagrees, makes you no better than the people who insist that archaeological evidence supports young Earth creationism.
  - anon12345690 7y ago
    nope lol are you in the medical community or are you getting this from twitter activists? gender identity is accepted as different from sex and because males and females are different so its possible that some people may have gender dysphoria (which is literally a mental disorder like body dysmorphia). nobody disagrees with all that. but 100 different genders and non-binary is not accepted by science. believing in that is like believing in creationism and flat earth at the same time.
    - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
      The American Psychiatric Association and the DSM-5 on gender dysphoria: https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Psychiatrists/Practice/DSM/APA_DSM-5-Gender-Dysphoria.pdf https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Psychiatrists/Prac... Notable points: Gender nonconformity is explicitly not a disorder. Gender dysphoria is, but only in "the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition." Approved treatments for gender dysphoria explicitly include "transition" and "hormone therapy, related surgery." The other major classification system, the United Nations World Health Organization's ICD, has similar language. Feel free to look it up.

Invictus0 7y ago

This is exactly my point. The other side looks at you and says you're wrong with equal conviction and their own bevy of justifications. Since you and the other side can't mutually agree on some set of axioms of worldview, both sides' "facts" just become opinions.

damnyou 7y ago
Yes, and at that point the only way out is to: 1. keep the door open for anyone who wishes to change their mind 2. wrest power from everyone else -- workplace by workplace, jurisdiction by jurisdiction, culture by culture. The pro-trans side is true, and sometimes truth has to go to war to win.
PhasmaFelis 7y ago
The presence of two opposed positions does not imply that they're both equally plausible. For example: one group believes in evolution, another believes God created the Earth out of nothing 6000 years ago. Without a time machine, neither one can categorically prove exactly what happened. But one side has mountains of evidence, and the other has dogma and ideology. There's a lot we don't understand yet about how being trans works, just as there's plenty of gaps in the fossil record that we haven't been able to fill yet. But if you ignore all the evidence we do have in favor of cherry-picking only the isolated studies that might support your position, you're no better than the people who think that the scarcity of transitional fossils refutes evolution.

tmp20191006cars 7y ago

This is because the sex reseachers with a different view were forced out of their jobs by intense activism.

damnyou 7y ago
They were forced out because they put hetero/cisnormative society's interests over their patients'. Their main goal always was to fit their patients into society rather than advocate for society to accept greater gender diversity.

anon12345690 7y ago

literally none of it does. what you just said is factually wrong. trans is a mental disorder and never stopped being that. some far-left activists are trying to say its not but that doesnt change the science. calling everyone a "bigot" doesnt change anything either other than show people that you arent reasonable and put feelings over facts

PhasmaFelis 7y ago
Most of the medical community disagrees with you. You're allowed to believe whatever you want. Science doesn't care about your feelings. Cherry-picking only the studies that can be interpreted to support your opinion, while ignoring the balance of the research that disagrees, makes you no better than the people who insist that archaeological evidence supports young Earth creationism.
- anon12345690 7y ago
  nope lol are you in the medical community or are you getting this from twitter activists? gender identity is accepted as different from sex and because males and females are different so its possible that some people may have gender dysphoria (which is literally a mental disorder like body dysmorphia). nobody disagrees with all that. but 100 different genders and non-binary is not accepted by science. believing in that is like believing in creationism and flat earth at the same time.
  - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
    The American Psychiatric Association and the DSM-5 on gender dysphoria: https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Psychiatrists/Practice/DSM/APA_DSM-5-Gender-Dysphoria.pdf https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Psychiatrists/Prac... Notable points: Gender nonconformity is explicitly not a disorder. Gender dysphoria is, but only in "the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition." Approved treatments for gender dysphoria explicitly include "transition" and "hormone therapy, related surgery." The other major classification system, the United Nations World Health Organization's ICD, has similar language. Feel free to look it up.