5 ms·

I'm gonna wade in hip-deep here and suggest that, given the size of the transgender community, the heat and hype of these issues are completely unwarranted. No

I'm gonna wade in hip-deep here and suggest that, given the size of the transgender community, the heat and hype of these issues are completely unwarranted. No hate towards anyone and I'll call anyone whatever they want as far as pronouns. But why is this a top-3 culture war issue? For a bunch of combatants who are overwhelmingly not trans and shouldn't really care? We need to think of a way to rise above without throwing anyone under the bus. It'd be better for both the trans community and society at large.

flippinburgers 7y ago
Honestly it is very strange to me that this is being downvoted. The level of outrage that I see is not at all proportional to the number of people affected. This is a very strange phenomenon. I seriously feel that the most heated carriers of torches in this scenario are people who gravitate towards "power play" moments and have happily found a niche where they can be ruthless in their assault.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > The level of outrage that I see is not at all proportional to the number of people affected If you insist on calling a transman “she” because of his genitals at birth, then (aside from how to affects me because I have trans people I care about, which is, to be sure, the more important impact on me), it also means when you call me “he” it only coincidentally aligns with my preference rather than respecting it. Just because I only can see your disrespect when it's directed at someone whose pronouns don't conform to your preference for them doesn't mean that it's only present there, just that it is masked by circumstance elsewhere. > I seriously feel that the most heated carriers of torches in this scenario are people who gravitate towards "power play" moments and have happily found a niche where they can be ruthless in their assault. And I seriously feel that the people with the most intense need to distract from the issue with speculation about why other people might express concern for the issue do so because they have a sode, can't defend it, and so choose instead to distract from opposition to it with irrelevancies.
  - anon12345690 7y ago
    distract? are you serious? yea this isn't distracting at all to 99.99% of people who can get along fine without worrying about pronoun rules.
- anon12345690 7y ago
  thats exactly it. people who have no serious problems so they invent new ones and love to play the moral outrage game because they get power over others you see so many people who do this then get eaten by the same group when they inevitably screw up some rule in the future
groby_b 7y ago
This is a top-3 culture war issue because it gives a perfect wedge. Gay marriage is lost as that issue, that was the next one theofascists latched on. (It's the same reason state legislatures are so very much concerned with gendered bathrooms these days) It is deliberately stoked time and again because it specifically fires up a large conservative base, and is life-threatening to a small group. As a bonus point for the wedge issue status, the vast majority in the middle doesn't understand how difficult and dangerous it is to be misgendered as a transgender person, and so it's easy to paint the LGBT community as "rabid" for defending people's right to not be misgendered. And that's why we're here. One large group deliberately fanning hate flames, and one small group desperately trying to not get killed even more often.
- deleted 7y ago
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- deleted 7y ago
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- brankoB 7y ago
  Are you seriously equating misgendering someone with killing them?
  - shard972 7y ago
    Yes
  - mthoms 7y ago
    The poster was likely referring to the astronomical rates of suicide among trans people. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/09/14/more-than-half-of-transgender-male-adolescents-attempt-suicide-study-says/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/09/1... Obviously, misgendering someone is not likely to be the thing that triggers such an act. But it is part of a pattern of bullying and general disregard that transgendered people face every single day.
    - 7y ago
dragonwriter 7y ago
> But why is this a top-3 culture war issue? It's not. Without suggesting these are the top 3, Abortion, gun control, and immigration are, just to pick 3 obvious ones, a far more central culture war issues than pronouns. (If you aggregated “LGBT rights” as a whole, you might get into the neighborhood of a top-3 issue.) > For a bunch of combatants who are overwhelmingly not trans and shouldn't really care? Unless, of course, you are a combatant on the other side, I can't imagine why you'd think that not-trans people shouldn't really care. > We need to think of a way to rise above without throwing anyone under the bus. How isn't having the decency to respect people's preferences in the pronouns you use to refer to them (and, though it's a separate but often concurrent issue, the gender you ascribe to them) exactly that?
- yourbandsucks 7y ago
  Mmmm. Look at the size of this subthread. It's like catnip. And I said I'll use whatever pronouns people want, already, in one of four short grafs. Yet it didn't stop you from wondering if I'm some 'stealth enemy'. It's funny, these culture war issues. In the case described, it doesn't seem to have involved any actual trans people either. It was all theoretical, talking about the CoC. I suppose my talk of 'rise above' means waiting until someone is actually a jerk before correcting them. We don't need cultural uniformity, we just need people to be nice.
  - anon12345690 7y ago
    yea the problem is all the people getting involved and outraged about things that dont concern them. they even use war terms like "allies" to get that moral righteousness so they feel like theyre in the "fight"

flippinburgers 7y ago

Honestly it is very strange to me that this is being downvoted. The level of outrage that I see is not at all proportional to the number of people affected. This is a very strange phenomenon. I seriously feel that the most heated carriers of torches in this scenario are people who gravitate towards "power play" moments and have happily found a niche where they can be ruthless in their assault.

dragonwriter 7y ago
> The level of outrage that I see is not at all proportional to the number of people affected If you insist on calling a transman “she” because of his genitals at birth, then (aside from how to affects me because I have trans people I care about, which is, to be sure, the more important impact on me), it also means when you call me “he” it only coincidentally aligns with my preference rather than respecting it. Just because I only can see your disrespect when it's directed at someone whose pronouns don't conform to your preference for them doesn't mean that it's only present there, just that it is masked by circumstance elsewhere. > I seriously feel that the most heated carriers of torches in this scenario are people who gravitate towards "power play" moments and have happily found a niche where they can be ruthless in their assault. And I seriously feel that the people with the most intense need to distract from the issue with speculation about why other people might express concern for the issue do so because they have a sode, can't defend it, and so choose instead to distract from opposition to it with irrelevancies.
- anon12345690 7y ago
  distract? are you serious? yea this isn't distracting at all to 99.99% of people who can get along fine without worrying about pronoun rules.
anon12345690 7y ago
thats exactly it. people who have no serious problems so they invent new ones and love to play the moral outrage game because they get power over others you see so many people who do this then get eaten by the same group when they inevitably screw up some rule in the future

groby_b 7y ago

This is a top-3 culture war issue because it gives a perfect wedge. Gay marriage is lost as that issue, that was the next one theofascists latched on. (It's the same reason state legislatures are so very much concerned with gendered bathrooms these days) It is deliberately stoked time and again because it specifically fires up a large conservative base, and is life-threatening to a small group. As a bonus point for the wedge issue status, the vast majority in the middle doesn't understand how difficult and dangerous it is to be misgendered as a transgender person, and so it's easy to paint the LGBT community as "rabid" for defending people's right to not be misgendered. And that's why we're here. One large group deliberately fanning hate flames, and one small group desperately trying to not get killed even more often.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
brankoB 7y ago
Are you seriously equating misgendering someone with killing them?
- shard972 7y ago
  Yes
- mthoms 7y ago
  The poster was likely referring to the astronomical rates of suicide among trans people. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/09/14/more-than-half-of-transgender-male-adolescents-attempt-suicide-study-says/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/09/1... Obviously, misgendering someone is not likely to be the thing that triggers such an act. But it is part of a pattern of bullying and general disregard that transgendered people face every single day.
  - 7y ago

dragonwriter 7y ago

> But why is this a top-3 culture war issue? It's not. Without suggesting these are the top 3, Abortion, gun control, and immigration are, just to pick 3 obvious ones, a far more central culture war issues than pronouns. (If you aggregated “LGBT rights” as a whole, you might get into the neighborhood of a top-3 issue.) > For a bunch of combatants who are overwhelmingly not trans and shouldn't really care? Unless, of course, you are a combatant on the other side, I can't imagine why you'd think that not-trans people shouldn't really care. > We need to think of a way to rise above without throwing anyone under the bus. How isn't having the decency to respect people's preferences in the pronouns you use to refer to them (and, though it's a separate but often concurrent issue, the gender you ascribe to them) exactly that?

yourbandsucks 7y ago
Mmmm. Look at the size of this subthread. It's like catnip. And I said I'll use whatever pronouns people want, already, in one of four short grafs. Yet it didn't stop you from wondering if I'm some 'stealth enemy'. It's funny, these culture war issues. In the case described, it doesn't seem to have involved any actual trans people either. It was all theoretical, talking about the CoC. I suppose my talk of 'rise above' means waiting until someone is actually a jerk before correcting them. We don't need cultural uniformity, we just need people to be nice.
- anon12345690 7y ago
  yea the problem is all the people getting involved and outraged about things that dont concern them. they even use war terms like "allies" to get that moral righteousness so they feel like theyre in the "fight"