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This is bad advice. I suggest that the first job you take be the one with the highest learning potential, not the highest earning potential. The only reason a

This is bad advice. I suggest that the first job you take be the one with the highest learning potential, not the highest earning potential. The only reason anyone works under another in this modern system is for money. Anyone who claims otherwise is stupid or lying. I'm forced to consider the motivation for giving this advice to new blood looking for employment and it's obvious. I work alone and I've learned a great deal with only books; note I mean work and not employment, here. Building empathy in the context of employment is only useful for promotions or continuing employment and I disagree with this notion that every programmer must, for some reason, become more empathetic, usually meaning capitulating to certain others, as if all programmers are lacking empathy. As for your advice to join an online community, it's not bad on its face, but the particulars could be improved, I think. An IRC channel is a good choice; Reddit or Hacker News aren't; those two, in particular, are only useful for self-promotion, as they mostly discuss things happening elsewhere and only even that briefly; conversations don't last months or years in these places; they're unsuited to discussions not based around self-promotion, for the most part; the goal is to have one's link on the front index or collect Internet points, generally. The only reason I have an account here is to promote my work, and I've had some success. As for an Internet community and making mistakes, you'll feel no shame if you simply use an anonymous form of communication. Imageboards are good examples. You can ask a silly question or make a mistaken claim and you don't suffer social stigma, because there's no identity to start with.

friendlybus 7y ago
You're not cold blooded like a shark. You're a frozen rock. There are many reasons to be an employee. Prestige, social connections, stability, interest, passion, learning and more. Empathy is not a form of capitulation. Solipsism can be a detrimental. You talk mad game about what your purpose is posting here, self promotion and all that, but your post is both contrary to that goal and has it's own story. Even on imageboards you have an identity. You just don't have particular kinds of consequences. Stay off them, they aren't your social skills crutch.
- verisimilitudes 7y ago
  You're not cold blooded like a shark. You're a frozen rock. I understand the metaphor you're making, but how was I trying to be cold to start with? Empathy is not a form of capitulation. Solipsism can be a detrimental. What I meant is this article assumes someone employed as a programmer needs more empathy and how that's a poor one. In an employment context, I figure empathy will usually be a method of extracting more resources out of an employee, which is what I meant by capitulation. It would be nice to be solipsistic, but I don't feel like creating any startups that violate laws and kill people for my benefit. I don't talk mad game and I'm merely being more honest about my purpose here than I feel others are. The only reason I made an account here is because my work was ignored and that displeased me, but the one who originally uploaded my work, in pursuit of Internet points, was no longer doing so and so I had to do this myself. My work has received some attention now, but I'm stuck with this account and its posting history, so I continue with it. Even on imageboards you have an identity. It depends on how careful one is. You just don't have particular kinds of consequences. Is that intended to be a negative aspect? Free speech is freedom from consequences thereof and it's great for a beginner to learn the ropes without an identity, even if the beginner does eventually start using one. Stay off them, they aren't your social skills crutch. I don't understand what your point in writing that is. I can't tell if you're trying to give advice or are trying to make demands of me. In any case, I'll continue using them. I see an amoitnga has also been downvoted for implying that money isn't the ultimate and only pursuit of employment. You could argue that's due to his tone, but I understandably take a more somber view of why that view would be disliked.
  - plausibilities 7y ago
    They're being snarky and accusing you of being an edgelord. Your level of detachment feels extreme to them and upsets them and thus they've deemed it a gimmick/act.
  - friendlybus 7y ago
    >Only work for money & anyone who claims otherwise is stupid or lying. This refutes the topic we are talking about "avoid working alone" which allows a space to defend working with others. You are free to refute working with others all you want, but going straight to "you're stupid and lying" as a refutation is going to put people off. >I work alone and do amazing things only from books. I'm sure you do. >Empathy exists for money or corporate ascendance. There's more to empathy than money, and going straight to 'empathy is all about making others capitulate' whilst possibly true from some perspectives, is basically the most anti-social stance you could take. Which makes it more uncomfortable in the context of the overall thread and your previous information. You then take a strong stance against Hackernews, the site you are supposedly posting on and implying most people are here to self promote, or at the least, receive self-promotion posts. Again a very hardline stance against more charitable and warm social stories. It may be true about HN, idk, but saying it nicer or how it could be improved would move how it feels away from a faceslap and towards a legitimate discussion. You then sing the virtues of being able to make social mistakes on imageboards and the benefits of avoiding social stigma in favour of not having an identity. Another pretty anti-social claim. No skin in the game, just a place to sh*tpost and hide in darkness. Which can be beneficial, but again it's pointing your post in an uncomfortable direction. And giving you a catch-all excuse for being anti-social. It's the fault of posting on HN that social mistakes are punished. All these things combined with a gut feeling judgement of your character (pretentious username? only interested in work?) leaves me in a place where I can't push back without breaking something. So I'm gonna break normal/polite conversation and just highlight stuff you do. Yeah americans have an edgelord thing, which seems like an easy label or compression of some ideas into one thing. Idk how to apply it, so I'm staying away from it. If you can defend all those ideas you like (empathy about money and capitulation, working alone is good, ect) please be my guest, but don't assume we're only here to discuss ideological commitments or debate ideas at the cost of walling & burning off absolutely everything else, like politeness or the thread's second half to the discussion 'the benefits of working socially on it's own merits'. Where do I have an opening to discuss with you the ideas without voicing how uncomfortable what you said is?

friendlybus 7y ago

You're not cold blooded like a shark. You're a frozen rock. There are many reasons to be an employee. Prestige, social connections, stability, interest, passion, learning and more. Empathy is not a form of capitulation. Solipsism can be a detrimental. You talk mad game about what your purpose is posting here, self promotion and all that, but your post is both contrary to that goal and has it's own story. Even on imageboards you have an identity. You just don't have particular kinds of consequences. Stay off them, they aren't your social skills crutch.

verisimilitudes 7y ago
You're not cold blooded like a shark. You're a frozen rock. I understand the metaphor you're making, but how was I trying to be cold to start with? Empathy is not a form of capitulation. Solipsism can be a detrimental. What I meant is this article assumes someone employed as a programmer needs more empathy and how that's a poor one. In an employment context, I figure empathy will usually be a method of extracting more resources out of an employee, which is what I meant by capitulation. It would be nice to be solipsistic, but I don't feel like creating any startups that violate laws and kill people for my benefit. I don't talk mad game and I'm merely being more honest about my purpose here than I feel others are. The only reason I made an account here is because my work was ignored and that displeased me, but the one who originally uploaded my work, in pursuit of Internet points, was no longer doing so and so I had to do this myself. My work has received some attention now, but I'm stuck with this account and its posting history, so I continue with it. Even on imageboards you have an identity. It depends on how careful one is. You just don't have particular kinds of consequences. Is that intended to be a negative aspect? Free speech is freedom from consequences thereof and it's great for a beginner to learn the ropes without an identity, even if the beginner does eventually start using one. Stay off them, they aren't your social skills crutch. I don't understand what your point in writing that is. I can't tell if you're trying to give advice or are trying to make demands of me. In any case, I'll continue using them. I see an amoitnga has also been downvoted for implying that money isn't the ultimate and only pursuit of employment. You could argue that's due to his tone, but I understandably take a more somber view of why that view would be disliked.
- plausibilities 7y ago
  They're being snarky and accusing you of being an edgelord. Your level of detachment feels extreme to them and upsets them and thus they've deemed it a gimmick/act.
- friendlybus 7y ago
  >Only work for money & anyone who claims otherwise is stupid or lying. This refutes the topic we are talking about "avoid working alone" which allows a space to defend working with others. You are free to refute working with others all you want, but going straight to "you're stupid and lying" as a refutation is going to put people off. >I work alone and do amazing things only from books. I'm sure you do. >Empathy exists for money or corporate ascendance. There's more to empathy than money, and going straight to 'empathy is all about making others capitulate' whilst possibly true from some perspectives, is basically the most anti-social stance you could take. Which makes it more uncomfortable in the context of the overall thread and your previous information. You then take a strong stance against Hackernews, the site you are supposedly posting on and implying most people are here to self promote, or at the least, receive self-promotion posts. Again a very hardline stance against more charitable and warm social stories. It may be true about HN, idk, but saying it nicer or how it could be improved would move how it feels away from a faceslap and towards a legitimate discussion. You then sing the virtues of being able to make social mistakes on imageboards and the benefits of avoiding social stigma in favour of not having an identity. Another pretty anti-social claim. No skin in the game, just a place to sh*tpost and hide in darkness. Which can be beneficial, but again it's pointing your post in an uncomfortable direction. And giving you a catch-all excuse for being anti-social. It's the fault of posting on HN that social mistakes are punished. All these things combined with a gut feeling judgement of your character (pretentious username? only interested in work?) leaves me in a place where I can't push back without breaking something. So I'm gonna break normal/polite conversation and just highlight stuff you do. Yeah americans have an edgelord thing, which seems like an easy label or compression of some ideas into one thing. Idk how to apply it, so I'm staying away from it. If you can defend all those ideas you like (empathy about money and capitulation, working alone is good, ect) please be my guest, but don't assume we're only here to discuss ideological commitments or debate ideas at the cost of walling & burning off absolutely everything else, like politeness or the thread's second half to the discussion 'the benefits of working socially on it's own merits'. Where do I have an opening to discuss with you the ideas without voicing how uncomfortable what you said is?