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This is why nationalism / patriotism is so destructive (edit: in blinding us to the possibility). We are all humans no matter where we live. Humans, in aggregat

This is why nationalism / patriotism is so destructive (edit: in blinding us to the possibility). We are all humans no matter where we live. Humans, in aggregate, have repeatedly over the years committed atrocities. And we will again, unless actively prevented. Being 'the best country in the world' (which ever one) is irrelevant. Then again tribal exceptionalism is in our nature too. I'm still troubled by the memory of a well educated intelligent American refuse to believe that the US uses torture when the Guantanamo revelations came to light.

ravenstine 7y ago
What does this have to do specifically with nationalism? A globalist government could conceivably do the same things.
- afandian 7y ago
  Specifically the belief that "my country would never do that". It's crucial to be able to believe that it can happen.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - read_if_gay_ 7y ago
    That seems like a very minor connection to nationalism. Also, lots of other political ideologies put a similar amount of faith in their government. I don't see a reason to single out nationalism at all beyond maybe pushing your agenda. The real lesson to be learned from this is not that nationalism is bad but that people should not trust their governments.
    - afandian 7y ago
      Who cares what the precise political ideology is? It's the same human characteristic.
      - read_if_gay_ 7y ago
        You, apparently, because you specifically pointed out nationalism and even gave a justification as to why.
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hayez1 7y ago
Go ask about MKUltra on /pol/ (which is full of far-right uber-nationalists) and you will get mountains upon mountains of information on MKUltra. Now go ask the same question on r/politics (which is prominently made of up leftists) and you will probably be called a conspiracy theorist and no one will converse with you. I think the real world is the opposite of your world-view.
- afandian 7y ago
  I can only speak from my perspective. The only people I see saying "the government would never torture" are those with a strong patriotic streak and desire to put tribal affiliation beyond humanitarian concerns. And I don't think that 4chan or reddit really correspond with society as a whole, at least this side of the duck pond.

ravenstine 7y ago

What does this have to do specifically with nationalism? A globalist government could conceivably do the same things.

afandian 7y ago
Specifically the belief that "my country would never do that". It's crucial to be able to believe that it can happen.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- read_if_gay_ 7y ago
  That seems like a very minor connection to nationalism. Also, lots of other political ideologies put a similar amount of faith in their government. I don't see a reason to single out nationalism at all beyond maybe pushing your agenda. The real lesson to be learned from this is not that nationalism is bad but that people should not trust their governments.
  - afandian 7y ago
    Who cares what the precise political ideology is? It's the same human characteristic.
    - read_if_gay_ 7y ago
      You, apparently, because you specifically pointed out nationalism and even gave a justification as to why.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

hayez1 7y ago

Go ask about MKUltra on /pol/ (which is full of far-right uber-nationalists) and you will get mountains upon mountains of information on MKUltra. Now go ask the same question on r/politics (which is prominently made of up leftists) and you will probably be called a conspiracy theorist and no one will converse with you. I think the real world is the opposite of your world-view.

afandian 7y ago
I can only speak from my perspective. The only people I see saying "the government would never torture" are those with a strong patriotic streak and desire to put tribal affiliation beyond humanitarian concerns. And I don't think that 4chan or reddit really correspond with society as a whole, at least this side of the duck pond.