5 ms·

Unit 731

131 points by rasengan 7y ago

GEBBL 7y ago
Some light Saturday reading
- rm_-rf_slash 7y ago
  Between this and the MKUltra post also on the front page today, I have to wonder if OP spent their Friday night watching Adam Curtis documentaries.
  - altcognito 7y ago
    We’ll know more if Soviet stuff shows up or not.
  - ethbro 7y ago
    Netflix and Chill: Crimes Against Humanity
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - H8crilA 7y ago
    Curtis is a great story teller, and I'm yet to find a factual inaccuracy in his storytelling style of reporting. Full recommendation on anything by this guy.
  - FillardMillmore 7y ago
    I was thinking the same thing. Whats next, The Nanking Massacre? Stalin's collectivization in Ukraine?
- leoc 7y ago
  I suppose it's time for the Guatemala syphillis experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment and Harry Haiselden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Haiselden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Haiselden next.
  - oblio 7y ago
    That Cutler guy only died in 2003, probably still as a respected member of his community...
- goblin89 7y ago
  Parts of the article are intensely horrifying. I almost wish there was a warning.
isoprophlex 7y ago
The descriptions of what went down there are almost too much to read, this is some straight up dr. Mengele shit. Most interestingly: The researchers involved in Unit 731 were secretly given immunity by the U.S. in exchange for the data they gathered through human experimentation... More reading at [0] While further down the linked article is written: There was consensus among U.S researchers in the postwar period that the human experimentation data gained was of little value to the development of American biological weapons and medicine. Postwar reports have generally regarded the data as "crude and ineffective", with one expert even deeming it "amateurish". [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_cover-up_of_Japanese_war_crimes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_cover-up_of_Japanes...
- Iv 7y ago
  I once read similar sentiment regarding the nazi efforts. I was curious, because I saw, probably like the U.S. did when they agreed to the exchange, that experimenting on humans like we did on animals could not possibly fail to give insights that would be almost impossible to get otherwise. Reading what they did, however, it really looked like the valued cruelty over science. The people they hired for that were not qualified (heh, turns out that sociopathic biologists who bought into nazi racist theories were not the brightest) and disregarded any kind of scientific method. Also one of their goal was to prove the inferiority of some races. Many experiments only had this goal in mind. I thought they experimented on humans like we do on animals. Animal experimentation may be cruel but cruelty is not the point, actually stress can impact the result in a big way. I remember they made experiment to see what temperatures the human body can handle. So they subject prisoners to various extreme conditions and... do not even note the time they were exposed to it. It was THAT amateurish. I really feel it was just torture renamed. "Hey, let's burn some Jews! We'll call it science!" "Ok, I'm in." Experiment result: the untermenschen died.
  - ashleyn 7y ago
    Read about "German physics". Third Reich Germany's scientific community suffered greatly because they had purged all Jewish people, many of whom were highly qualified and disciplined. Fortunately for the rest of the world, this had a deleterious impact on their war machine as well. I've heard it quipped that "Jewish physics" ended the war.
ethbro 7y ago
That Wikipedia article is a train wreck in shock journalism. As documented as the material is, the current state is basically just a pile of descriptions of attrocities committed. With many duplicated. Compare to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust I'd guess because no one wants to spend their time reading primary sources about something so terrible, and straightening it out.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
lettergram 7y ago
Lots of Wikipedia articles today lol pretty interesting, especially all the groups working on human experimentation.
- mLuby 7y ago
  and from the same poster…
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
renditioned 7y ago
Heads up that OP seems to have posted a disproportionate amount of pro China comments in the past year. This just looks like another attempt at psychological manipulation and generating more sympathy for the Chinese. Don't fall for it. Unfortunately dang given some of things he said recently can no longer be relied upon on these matters
- bildung 7y ago
  Is there anything factually incorrect in the Wikipedia entry?
  - renditioned 7y ago
    One can never be sure given that Wikipedia articles are open for anyone to edit (it's interesting to note that there's a tremendous amount of controversy over whether these atrocities indeed happened, and that Britannica did not even have a single article on it). Regardless of the factual accuracy of any assertion, it's always important to point out when nefarious motives are behind it. Analogy: suppose every time a black person commits a crime the city newspaper publishes it and every time a white person does the same the newspaper does not cover it. Then the newspaper cannot be criticized on grounds of inaccuracy, for nothing it said is untrue. But obviously it can still be criticised for nefarious motives
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      The Rape of Nanking, and Imperial Japan's actions, not just of Unit 731, in the war are well recorded and cited fact. Talking about it is "nefarious motives"? What nefarious motives are there to remind of a particularly dark period of Japanese history? Pre-revolutionary China was disproportionately a victim of Japan's actions in the 1930s and 1940s. That should be remembered, not taken as cause to make ridiculous claims of psychological manipulation.
- 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
aaron695 7y ago
Stories coming from incidents like these are consistently incorrect. Wiki is quoting stories someone heard, not actual testimonials. This is a road straight to fake news. We saw it in the Iraq wars constantly. Anyway, the source country wiki version is always interesting to compare for some topics. https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/731%E9%83%A8%E9%9A%8A https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/731%E9%83%A8%E9%9A%8A
nutcracker46 7y ago
It was interesting how people operating Unit 731 were dealt with after WW2 ended. Specifically, note how some were punished, but a small number of others went on to distinguished careers - sort of like the Nazi rocket men. The USA wanted the knowledge without the publicity associated with large tribunals / criminal trials. If you can spare a few hours, find the podcast or visit YouTube for Jocko Podcast 133 "Face History so You Can Learn From It. The Horrors of Unit 731." The section about Japanese research into developing a plague weapon made my blood boil. Even worse was experimentation into spreading disease with artillery shells coated with pathogens. The infection method was by detonating shells near prisoners whose legs and arms are exposed to the blast. Those fascists were attempting to seize the Asia-Pacific region and enslave it. We are on the brink of another similar episode, this time, ironically, from the country where Unit 731 was located.
adamveld12 7y ago
I'm a big fan of Jocko's podcast, there are great episodes that talk about Unit 731 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mizmXTWDf-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mizmXTWDf-4) and the Rape of Nanjing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uylTcj5yDOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uylTcj5yDOM) that are worth the time if you're interested in learning about the darker side of history. The Rape of Nanjing episode is particularly interesting since he goes over the book "The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II" by Iris Chang in the first part, following that up with readings from "The Woman Who Could Not Forget" by, Dr. Ying Ying Chang which goes over how researching the Nanjing Massacre affected her daughter Iris deeply enough to the point of ending her own life. Usually this is stuff that people avoid, but I feel that knowing what people are capable of doing gives some perspective in my life.
- Lio 7y ago
  We should never forget. Any speculative fiction about the horrors of runaway AI or the supernatural or some form of extraterrestrial life pale in comparison to what our species has done to itself over the years. Any horror you could possibly imagine, some wanker has probably already done it to someone else for real.
eps 7y ago
From what I gathered talking to Chinese fellas I worked with (in Canada), this is one of the main reasons why Chinese still strongly dislike Japanese people. In a stereotype sort of way. They also really don’t like discussing this topic and will answer with much hesitation and only if pressed. So it appears to be a wound that didn’t quite heal yet.
- calyth2018 7y ago
  It should be no surprise that it's a wound that hasn't quite healed yet. Comfort women [0] is another one. Before I immigrated as a kid, HK victims were still trying to sort that out with Japan. South Korea is also a victim, among other SE Asian countries. I don't dislike the people. I dislike the successive administration that wants to ignore what their country have done to many different groups around that time. And seeing how the West is complicit, is it that hard to understand there's still mistrust there? 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women

Unit 731

131 points by rasengan 7y ago

GEBBL 7y ago

Some light Saturday reading

rm_-rf_slash 7y ago
Between this and the MKUltra post also on the front page today, I have to wonder if OP spent their Friday night watching Adam Curtis documentaries.
- altcognito 7y ago
  We’ll know more if Soviet stuff shows up or not.
- ethbro 7y ago
  Netflix and Chill: Crimes Against Humanity
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- H8crilA 7y ago
  Curtis is a great story teller, and I'm yet to find a factual inaccuracy in his storytelling style of reporting. Full recommendation on anything by this guy.
- FillardMillmore 7y ago
  I was thinking the same thing. Whats next, The Nanking Massacre? Stalin's collectivization in Ukraine?
leoc 7y ago
I suppose it's time for the Guatemala syphillis experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment and Harry Haiselden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Haiselden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Haiselden next.
- oblio 7y ago
  That Cutler guy only died in 2003, probably still as a respected member of his community...
goblin89 7y ago
Parts of the article are intensely horrifying. I almost wish there was a warning.

isoprophlex 7y ago

The descriptions of what went down there are almost too much to read, this is some straight up dr. Mengele shit. Most interestingly: The researchers involved in Unit 731 were secretly given immunity by the U.S. in exchange for the data they gathered through human experimentation... More reading at [0] While further down the linked article is written: There was consensus among U.S researchers in the postwar period that the human experimentation data gained was of little value to the development of American biological weapons and medicine. Postwar reports have generally regarded the data as "crude and ineffective", with one expert even deeming it "amateurish". [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_cover-up_of_Japanese_war_crimes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_cover-up_of_Japanes...

Iv 7y ago
I once read similar sentiment regarding the nazi efforts. I was curious, because I saw, probably like the U.S. did when they agreed to the exchange, that experimenting on humans like we did on animals could not possibly fail to give insights that would be almost impossible to get otherwise. Reading what they did, however, it really looked like the valued cruelty over science. The people they hired for that were not qualified (heh, turns out that sociopathic biologists who bought into nazi racist theories were not the brightest) and disregarded any kind of scientific method. Also one of their goal was to prove the inferiority of some races. Many experiments only had this goal in mind. I thought they experimented on humans like we do on animals. Animal experimentation may be cruel but cruelty is not the point, actually stress can impact the result in a big way. I remember they made experiment to see what temperatures the human body can handle. So they subject prisoners to various extreme conditions and... do not even note the time they were exposed to it. It was THAT amateurish. I really feel it was just torture renamed. "Hey, let's burn some Jews! We'll call it science!" "Ok, I'm in." Experiment result: the untermenschen died.
- ashleyn 7y ago
  Read about "German physics". Third Reich Germany's scientific community suffered greatly because they had purged all Jewish people, many of whom were highly qualified and disciplined. Fortunately for the rest of the world, this had a deleterious impact on their war machine as well. I've heard it quipped that "Jewish physics" ended the war.

ethbro 7y ago

That Wikipedia article is a train wreck in shock journalism. As documented as the material is, the current state is basically just a pile of descriptions of attrocities committed. With many duplicated. Compare to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust I'd guess because no one wants to spend their time reading primary sources about something so terrible, and straightening it out.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

lettergram 7y ago

Lots of Wikipedia articles today lol pretty interesting, especially all the groups working on human experimentation.

mLuby 7y ago
and from the same poster…

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

renditioned 7y ago

Heads up that OP seems to have posted a disproportionate amount of pro China comments in the past year. This just looks like another attempt at psychological manipulation and generating more sympathy for the Chinese. Don't fall for it. Unfortunately dang given some of things he said recently can no longer be relied upon on these matters

bildung 7y ago
Is there anything factually incorrect in the Wikipedia entry?
- renditioned 7y ago
  One can never be sure given that Wikipedia articles are open for anyone to edit (it's interesting to note that there's a tremendous amount of controversy over whether these atrocities indeed happened, and that Britannica did not even have a single article on it). Regardless of the factual accuracy of any assertion, it's always important to point out when nefarious motives are behind it. Analogy: suppose every time a black person commits a crime the city newspaper publishes it and every time a white person does the same the newspaper does not cover it. Then the newspaper cannot be criticized on grounds of inaccuracy, for nothing it said is untrue. But obviously it can still be criticised for nefarious motives
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    The Rape of Nanking, and Imperial Japan's actions, not just of Unit 731, in the war are well recorded and cited fact. Talking about it is "nefarious motives"? What nefarious motives are there to remind of a particularly dark period of Japanese history? Pre-revolutionary China was disproportionately a victim of Japan's actions in the 1930s and 1940s. That should be remembered, not taken as cause to make ridiculous claims of psychological manipulation.
7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

aaron695 7y ago

Stories coming from incidents like these are consistently incorrect. Wiki is quoting stories someone heard, not actual testimonials. This is a road straight to fake news. We saw it in the Iraq wars constantly. Anyway, the source country wiki version is always interesting to compare for some topics. https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/731%E9%83%A8%E9%9A%8A https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/731%E9%83%A8%E9%9A%8A

nutcracker46 7y ago

It was interesting how people operating Unit 731 were dealt with after WW2 ended. Specifically, note how some were punished, but a small number of others went on to distinguished careers - sort of like the Nazi rocket men. The USA wanted the knowledge without the publicity associated with large tribunals / criminal trials. If you can spare a few hours, find the podcast or visit YouTube for Jocko Podcast 133 "Face History so You Can Learn From It. The Horrors of Unit 731." The section about Japanese research into developing a plague weapon made my blood boil. Even worse was experimentation into spreading disease with artillery shells coated with pathogens. The infection method was by detonating shells near prisoners whose legs and arms are exposed to the blast. Those fascists were attempting to seize the Asia-Pacific region and enslave it. We are on the brink of another similar episode, this time, ironically, from the country where Unit 731 was located.

adamveld12 7y ago

I'm a big fan of Jocko's podcast, there are great episodes that talk about Unit 731 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mizmXTWDf-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mizmXTWDf-4) and the Rape of Nanjing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uylTcj5yDOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uylTcj5yDOM) that are worth the time if you're interested in learning about the darker side of history. The Rape of Nanjing episode is particularly interesting since he goes over the book "The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II" by Iris Chang in the first part, following that up with readings from "The Woman Who Could Not Forget" by, Dr. Ying Ying Chang which goes over how researching the Nanjing Massacre affected her daughter Iris deeply enough to the point of ending her own life. Usually this is stuff that people avoid, but I feel that knowing what people are capable of doing gives some perspective in my life.

Lio 7y ago
We should never forget. Any speculative fiction about the horrors of runaway AI or the supernatural or some form of extraterrestrial life pale in comparison to what our species has done to itself over the years. Any horror you could possibly imagine, some wanker has probably already done it to someone else for real.

eps 7y ago

From what I gathered talking to Chinese fellas I worked with (in Canada), this is one of the main reasons why Chinese still strongly dislike Japanese people. In a stereotype sort of way. They also really don’t like discussing this topic and will answer with much hesitation and only if pressed. So it appears to be a wound that didn’t quite heal yet.

calyth2018 7y ago
It should be no surprise that it's a wound that hasn't quite healed yet. Comfort women [0] is another one. Before I immigrated as a kid, HK victims were still trying to sort that out with Japan. South Korea is also a victim, among other SE Asian countries. I don't dislike the people. I dislike the successive administration that wants to ignore what their country have done to many different groups around that time. And seeing how the West is complicit, is it that hard to understand there's still mistrust there? 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women