3 ms·

> Imagine being unable to buy food because an algorithm determined that “you violated our community standards” and there’s no way to contact them. One or two st

by alt_f4 7y ago

> Imagine being unable to buy food because an algorithm determined that “you violated our community standards” and there’s no way to contact them. One or two stories like that will kill Libra stone This already exists. If your bank's AML algorithm flags certain transactions, your account will be frozen, with no explanation (they legally can't tell you why they did it, it is an offense). You will be asked to produce some documents whilst they and potentially law enforcement investigate. Again, you won't be told why or how long it will take. Usually, if you haven't done anything wrong, you'll have no access to your money for 1-2 months. Now, here's the kicker. Those flagging algorithms aren't very good. They don't work on any sophisticated social graphs. They're based on a bunch of simple rules -- maybe you made a large cash deposit, or wired more money than usual, or received a bunch of small transactions (maybe you're selling drugs?). The flag is raised, the account is frozen and you're shit out of luck trying to get an explanation or buying things for a few months. Given we still use banks, I'm sure "you violated our community standards" won't be the straw that broke the camel's back.

ben_w 7y ago
> Given we still use banks, I'm sure "you violated our community standards" won't be the straw that broke the camel's back. That depends entirely on how much trust there is. Lots of people don’t trust their governments, but most do; ditto corporations. A government can be arbitrary and capricious in ways that corporations cannot, but most of us live in democracies and even those of us that don’t most live in countries that follow the rule of law. I assume all large corporations care about rule of law, but I also assume they outspend governments on lawyers looking for legal loopholes, and corporations are not normally democracies. I don’t trust Facebook basically at all, I wouldn’t trust Google with money, the only reason I trust Apple with money is they’ve outsourced it to an actual bank, and I am only grudgingly willing to trust PayPal for occasional small transactions. The banks themselves? Well, since the financial crisis I assume any given one will go under so I have several and distribute my money between them. Of course, I’m unusually cautious.
YawningAngel 7y ago
This isn't quite correct. At Monzo (and thus I assume other banks in the UK as well) you won't be sanctioned until a human being had reviewed your case history.

by alt_f4 7y ago

ben_w 7y ago

> Given we still use banks, I'm sure "you violated our community standards" won't be the straw that broke the camel's back. That depends entirely on how much trust there is. Lots of people don’t trust their governments, but most do; ditto corporations. A government can be arbitrary and capricious in ways that corporations cannot, but most of us live in democracies and even those of us that don’t most live in countries that follow the rule of law. I assume all large corporations care about rule of law, but I also assume they outspend governments on lawyers looking for legal loopholes, and corporations are not normally democracies. I don’t trust Facebook basically at all, I wouldn’t trust Google with money, the only reason I trust Apple with money is they’ve outsourced it to an actual bank, and I am only grudgingly willing to trust PayPal for occasional small transactions. The banks themselves? Well, since the financial crisis I assume any given one will go under so I have several and distribute my money between them. Of course, I’m unusually cautious.

YawningAngel 7y ago

This isn't quite correct. At Monzo (and thus I assume other banks in the UK as well) you won't be sanctioned until a human being had reviewed your case history.