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This is where I stopped reading. How can somebody claim to be on the cusp of disrupting a market when they evidently don't understand the consumer? Nutritional

This is where I stopped reading. How can somebody claim to be on the cusp of disrupting a market when they evidently don't understand the consumer? Nutritional equivalence will not bankrupt the cattle industry.

carapace 7y ago
I'm too lazy at the moment to look up a link but fast food restaurants are already adopting these faux-beef burgers and people love them.
- em-bee 7y ago
  yes, but i doubt that cost-parity alone will get people to stop eating meat. there has to be more than that. the popularity of these alternatives is an indicator but not everyone primarily eats burgers. there is also still the general problem with all processed foods being less healthy than naturally grown foods...
  - montalbano 7y ago
    From the report: > The cost of proteins will be five times cheaper by 2030 and 10 times cheaper by 2035 than existing animal proteins This is about more than nutritional equivalence. The meat in a burger is usually the most expensive component so artificial proteins could lead to a reduction in the price of a burger by approximately 5x. Also, naturally grown food means different things to different people. As mentioned elsewhere in this discussion, much of the naturally grown food we consume now is produced in a vastly different way than it would have been 100 years ago, sometimes to the detriment of nutritional value.
    - marcus_holmes 7y ago
      A farmer friend of mine opines: "organic just means bugs have crawled over it before you eat it" The rise of veganism, mostly on ethical grounds, shows that nutritional equivalence may in fact be a minority concern, and that the ethics of "cruelty-free" eating supercede all nutritional concerns.
      - ImprovedSilence 7y ago
        I’m not big on organic produce per se, but the other side of that argument would be non-organic just means your food has been lathered in chemicals that the insecticide industry puts a lot of money into “proving” isn’t carcinogenic and destroying the food chain in other ways. It’s easy to see bugs, it’s not so easy to see or ever know the externalities of invisible chemicals.
      - jgrin 7y ago
        Put another way, “organic means a bug was able to crawl over your food without dying”.
        qplex 7y ago
        If the bugs eat the crops, there isnt any crawled over food left.
        marcus_holmes 7y ago
        I like that. I'll tell him when I see him next :)
    - lamelamelame 7y ago
      [Weekendmode:] So, for example and my (-or-our-(crossed out)) short span of attention (sorry ^^) using soja may create problems with your pancreas (steroids/cortisol-metabolism for example - heck! -it was somewhere written....) ? Um... Here in germany the witch doctors are partying, after knee; back, pain therapy, ('By now! or be on our list' Your new pacemaker -not visible from your outside for only $10,000,- additional charge'...) 'We now have a profit-boom of 25% with cardiac disease-management' ?! So let me ask: 'Is your pancrias/gut the next (?) 'hot-shit'-thing ? OT: -Adding-(crossed-out) Mixing topics/themata for fun... (-;
  - carapace 7y ago
    I think the cost will decline rapidly while the quality (in general and in how closely it resembles real meat) will increase. Even if people prefer to eat animal flesh the economics will drive mass consumption to faux-meat, IMO. > there is also still the general problem with all processed foods being less healthy than naturally grown foods... Yer preachin' to the choir: I'll never eat these franken-burgers for love nor money.
- randomdata 7y ago
  The thing is that the faux-beef burgers are good, but different. I don't see them as being a beef replacement as much as another choice of food available. Many fast food restaurants offer other options beyond beef, like chicken, pork, and fish burgers. People also love those options, but beef remains a viable industry regardless. The faux-meat industry has a lot of potential to be viable, but it is not clear why that it is at the cost of another industry. There is room for both.
- WaltPurvis 7y ago
  That's not even technically an anecdote, let alone data, but here's a more accurate description of what's "already" happening: A vanishingly small fraction of fast-food restaurants are taking small steps to experiment with offering faux-beef burgers as an additional menu option for the small percentage of their customers who might want that.
  - carapace 7y ago
    In the cold light of morning... Here we go: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/entertainment/the-scene/Plant-Based-Meat-Fast-Food-561454171.html https://www.nbcnewyork.com/entertainment/the-scene/Plant-Bas... > A number of fast-food chains have introduced plant-based meat alternatives in recent months, partnering with meatless companies Beyond Meat or Impossible Foods. > They are reacting to consumers' increased appetite for those foods: from April 2018 to April 2019, the plant-based retail market has registered 11% growth, according to data published on the Plant Based Foods Association website. - - - - Or this: https://www.starherald.com/news/nation_world/impossible-burger-becomes-no-item-sold-at-grocery-stores/article_78629272-e4ad-5531-9012-a8f55ee662cb.html https://www.starherald.com/news/nation_world/impossible-burg... > Impossible Burger debuted on store shelves earlier this month, immediately becoming the No. 1 product sold at some of America’s favorite grocery stores -- and remaining the top performer ever since. > Since its Sept. 20 debut, Impossible Burger has remained the No. 1 packaged item at Gelson’s 27-unit chain. Since its launch, Gelson’s has sold more Impossible Burger than all types of ground beef from cows, based on both revenue and total number of pounds sold. > “No one could have predicted this level of pent-up demand for Impossible Burger,” said John Bagan, Gelson’s Chief Merchandising Officer. - - - - I think we are at the base of the "hockey-stick" curve and that meatless meat is about to eat beef's lunch.
    - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
      I highly doubt your last paragraph. Meatless would have to be clearly better on at least one axis that matters to customers, and not significantly worse on any other axis. I don't see that happening. (And don't bother to say "no animals harmed". That isn't an axis that matters to customers of beef.)
- S_A_P 7y ago
  I’ve had the impossible whopper. It was fine. I didn’t hate it. I didn’t love it. I also probably won’t buy it again because there isn’t really any reason to.
  - gpvos 7y ago
    Eating less meat is enough reason for me, so if I somehow end up at a Burger King, I would quite probably buy it. (Note that I plan to continue eating meat, just less of it.)
  - cycrutchfield 7y ago
    How about if it cost half the price of the regular burger?

carapace 7y ago

I'm too lazy at the moment to look up a link but fast food restaurants are already adopting these faux-beef burgers and people love them.

em-bee 7y ago
yes, but i doubt that cost-parity alone will get people to stop eating meat. there has to be more than that. the popularity of these alternatives is an indicator but not everyone primarily eats burgers. there is also still the general problem with all processed foods being less healthy than naturally grown foods...
- montalbano 7y ago
  From the report: > The cost of proteins will be five times cheaper by 2030 and 10 times cheaper by 2035 than existing animal proteins This is about more than nutritional equivalence. The meat in a burger is usually the most expensive component so artificial proteins could lead to a reduction in the price of a burger by approximately 5x. Also, naturally grown food means different things to different people. As mentioned elsewhere in this discussion, much of the naturally grown food we consume now is produced in a vastly different way than it would have been 100 years ago, sometimes to the detriment of nutritional value.
  - marcus_holmes 7y ago
    A farmer friend of mine opines: "organic just means bugs have crawled over it before you eat it" The rise of veganism, mostly on ethical grounds, shows that nutritional equivalence may in fact be a minority concern, and that the ethics of "cruelty-free" eating supercede all nutritional concerns.
    - ImprovedSilence 7y ago
      I’m not big on organic produce per se, but the other side of that argument would be non-organic just means your food has been lathered in chemicals that the insecticide industry puts a lot of money into “proving” isn’t carcinogenic and destroying the food chain in other ways. It’s easy to see bugs, it’s not so easy to see or ever know the externalities of invisible chemicals.
    - jgrin 7y ago
      Put another way, “organic means a bug was able to crawl over your food without dying”.
      - qplex 7y ago
        If the bugs eat the crops, there isnt any crawled over food left.
      - marcus_holmes 7y ago
        I like that. I'll tell him when I see him next :)
  - lamelamelame 7y ago
    [Weekendmode:] So, for example and my (-or-our-(crossed out)) short span of attention (sorry ^^) using soja may create problems with your pancreas (steroids/cortisol-metabolism for example - heck! -it was somewhere written....) ? Um... Here in germany the witch doctors are partying, after knee; back, pain therapy, ('By now! or be on our list' Your new pacemaker -not visible from your outside for only $10,000,- additional charge'...) 'We now have a profit-boom of 25% with cardiac disease-management' ?! So let me ask: 'Is your pancrias/gut the next (?) 'hot-shit'-thing ? OT: -Adding-(crossed-out) Mixing topics/themata for fun... (-;
- carapace 7y ago
  I think the cost will decline rapidly while the quality (in general and in how closely it resembles real meat) will increase. Even if people prefer to eat animal flesh the economics will drive mass consumption to faux-meat, IMO. > there is also still the general problem with all processed foods being less healthy than naturally grown foods... Yer preachin' to the choir: I'll never eat these franken-burgers for love nor money.
randomdata 7y ago
The thing is that the faux-beef burgers are good, but different. I don't see them as being a beef replacement as much as another choice of food available. Many fast food restaurants offer other options beyond beef, like chicken, pork, and fish burgers. People also love those options, but beef remains a viable industry regardless. The faux-meat industry has a lot of potential to be viable, but it is not clear why that it is at the cost of another industry. There is room for both.
WaltPurvis 7y ago
That's not even technically an anecdote, let alone data, but here's a more accurate description of what's "already" happening: A vanishingly small fraction of fast-food restaurants are taking small steps to experiment with offering faux-beef burgers as an additional menu option for the small percentage of their customers who might want that.
- carapace 7y ago
  In the cold light of morning... Here we go: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/entertainment/the-scene/Plant-Based-Meat-Fast-Food-561454171.html https://www.nbcnewyork.com/entertainment/the-scene/Plant-Bas... > A number of fast-food chains have introduced plant-based meat alternatives in recent months, partnering with meatless companies Beyond Meat or Impossible Foods. > They are reacting to consumers' increased appetite for those foods: from April 2018 to April 2019, the plant-based retail market has registered 11% growth, according to data published on the Plant Based Foods Association website. - - - - Or this: https://www.starherald.com/news/nation_world/impossible-burger-becomes-no-item-sold-at-grocery-stores/article_78629272-e4ad-5531-9012-a8f55ee662cb.html https://www.starherald.com/news/nation_world/impossible-burg... > Impossible Burger debuted on store shelves earlier this month, immediately becoming the No. 1 product sold at some of America’s favorite grocery stores -- and remaining the top performer ever since. > Since its Sept. 20 debut, Impossible Burger has remained the No. 1 packaged item at Gelson’s 27-unit chain. Since its launch, Gelson’s has sold more Impossible Burger than all types of ground beef from cows, based on both revenue and total number of pounds sold. > “No one could have predicted this level of pent-up demand for Impossible Burger,” said John Bagan, Gelson’s Chief Merchandising Officer. - - - - I think we are at the base of the "hockey-stick" curve and that meatless meat is about to eat beef's lunch.
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    I highly doubt your last paragraph. Meatless would have to be clearly better on at least one axis that matters to customers, and not significantly worse on any other axis. I don't see that happening. (And don't bother to say "no animals harmed". That isn't an axis that matters to customers of beef.)
S_A_P 7y ago
I’ve had the impossible whopper. It was fine. I didn’t hate it. I didn’t love it. I also probably won’t buy it again because there isn’t really any reason to.
- gpvos 7y ago
  Eating less meat is enough reason for me, so if I somehow end up at a Burger King, I would quite probably buy it. (Note that I plan to continue eating meat, just less of it.)
- cycrutchfield 7y ago
  How about if it cost half the price of the regular burger?