4 ms·

Regardless of your feelings on DRM or access on preferred devices, I think another issue that often gets overlooked (or people just don't know about it) is that

Regardless of your feelings on DRM or access on preferred devices, I think another issue that often gets overlooked (or people just don't know about it) is that you end up forfeiting a pretty nice consumer protection. One of the benefits of a credit card is if a charge is made in error and the company doesn't want to make good on it, you can issue a chargeback and your credit card issuer will intervene and either side with you or the seller. You might not win, but at least you get a chance to make your case. With many (all?) of these services, the moment you issue a chargeback you lose access to all your legitimately purchased (actually, licensed) content. And since what they really do is ban your account, if you have a balance from one of their gift cards, you lose all of that as well.

scarface74 7y ago
I’ve never heard of Apple banning an account. My experience is that they have never denied a refund request.
- nirvdrum 7y ago
  I can't speak to Apple specifically, but a refund request and a chargeback are different things. If you receive an unexpected charge, you may request a chargeback without even realizing what is happening. It's not exactly incumbent upon you to spend time with a CS rep. trying to work out why they charged you for something they shouldn't have. The most common cases I've heard are around compromised accounts, regardless of which party was responsible.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    You don’t talk to anyone. You click on “request refund” and give a reason. You’re much less likely to have negative consequences from requesting a refund than a chargeback.
    - nirvdrum 7y ago
      Avoiding a chargeback would avoid a ban for a chargeback. That's not really in dispute. My point is it's a legitimate consumer protection that you unwittingly forfeit when you buy into a provider's digital ecosystem. Given no one actually reads a EULA, I think it's safe to say they don't realize what may happen to their licensed content if they do initiate a chargeback. A quick search suggests Apple is no different in this regard [1]. [1] -- https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6474540 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6474540 (But, it's old, so may be out of date? I didn't spend too much time looking into this one provider.)
      - scarface74 7y ago
        And on down - Apple only said that he couldn’t use his Amex because of the chargeback. Not that he couldn’t use his account. Just for the record I found out why my it would not accept my updated AMEX information. Because of the charge back due to a dispute that I put through my AMEX card when the app company never got back to me on unauthorized charge AMEX was able to get me my credit but then Apple has the right according to them to no longer accept your AMEX card as form of payment. Well this is another reason why I hate APPLE period, I only own a iPad and will never own a iPhone. I told them they have lost me as a client. It's ridiculious that they are going to tell me that I cannot use my AMEX because of a $7.99 charge back. PLEASE don't insult my intelligence.. I am done.
        nirvdrum 7y ago
        Fantastic. I hope the others follow suit, because the current system is ridiculous. I stand by my original point because many providers do engage in that sort of anti-consumer behavior.
        scarface74 7y ago
        From what I can tell, they wanted a refund and contacted the app developer instead of contacting Apple. The app developer can’t issue refunds when a purchase is made through the App Store. For instance, if you buy a video from Udemy directly, they will give you a refund if you ask. If you buy through the App Store, they tell you to contact Apple.
macdice 7y ago
Another factor is that if you move countries some of your "purchased" movies disappear because you only "purchased" the right to watch them in territory X. While DVDs also made a half-hearted attempt at artificially preserving market separation with "zones" (I guess to continue the natural market separation that came from NTSC vs PAL and friends in the VHS days?) that could be worked around easily enough.

scarface74 7y ago

I’ve never heard of Apple banning an account. My experience is that they have never denied a refund request.

nirvdrum 7y ago
I can't speak to Apple specifically, but a refund request and a chargeback are different things. If you receive an unexpected charge, you may request a chargeback without even realizing what is happening. It's not exactly incumbent upon you to spend time with a CS rep. trying to work out why they charged you for something they shouldn't have. The most common cases I've heard are around compromised accounts, regardless of which party was responsible.
- scarface74 7y ago
  You don’t talk to anyone. You click on “request refund” and give a reason. You’re much less likely to have negative consequences from requesting a refund than a chargeback.
  - nirvdrum 7y ago
    Avoiding a chargeback would avoid a ban for a chargeback. That's not really in dispute. My point is it's a legitimate consumer protection that you unwittingly forfeit when you buy into a provider's digital ecosystem. Given no one actually reads a EULA, I think it's safe to say they don't realize what may happen to their licensed content if they do initiate a chargeback. A quick search suggests Apple is no different in this regard [1]. [1] -- https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6474540 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6474540 (But, it's old, so may be out of date? I didn't spend too much time looking into this one provider.)
    - scarface74 7y ago
      And on down - Apple only said that he couldn’t use his Amex because of the chargeback. Not that he couldn’t use his account. Just for the record I found out why my it would not accept my updated AMEX information. Because of the charge back due to a dispute that I put through my AMEX card when the app company never got back to me on unauthorized charge AMEX was able to get me my credit but then Apple has the right according to them to no longer accept your AMEX card as form of payment. Well this is another reason why I hate APPLE period, I only own a iPad and will never own a iPhone. I told them they have lost me as a client. It's ridiculious that they are going to tell me that I cannot use my AMEX because of a $7.99 charge back. PLEASE don't insult my intelligence.. I am done.
      - nirvdrum 7y ago
        Fantastic. I hope the others follow suit, because the current system is ridiculous. I stand by my original point because many providers do engage in that sort of anti-consumer behavior.
        scarface74 7y ago
        From what I can tell, they wanted a refund and contacted the app developer instead of contacting Apple. The app developer can’t issue refunds when a purchase is made through the App Store. For instance, if you buy a video from Udemy directly, they will give you a refund if you ask. If you buy through the App Store, they tell you to contact Apple.

macdice 7y ago

Another factor is that if you move countries some of your "purchased" movies disappear because you only "purchased" the right to watch them in territory X. While DVDs also made a half-hearted attempt at artificially preserving market separation with "zones" (I guess to continue the natural market separation that came from NTSC vs PAL and friends in the VHS days?) that could be worked around easily enough.