4 ms·

That strikes me as pure security theater. There’s no relationship between what the machine is doing and what is contained on an apparent copy of the machine’s p

That strikes me as pure security theater. There’s no relationship between what the machine is doing and what is contained on an apparent copy of the machine’s purported storage device. Just like TSA booting my laptop ... when they do it my laptop boots into a Microsoft Windows environment that I’ve literally never used. When I boot the same machine I get netbsd. Weird, right ?

archgoon 7y ago
Just because a test doesn't catch all attacks doesn't mean that performing the test is security theatre. It's a bit like saying that ASLR and stack canaries are security theatre because they can be defeated by information leaks.
anarchodev 7y ago
wait, TSA boots your laptop now? I don't even understand what they'd expect to find?
- gnu8 7y ago
  Obviously, a laptop shell filled with semtex won't boot up. I think it's also possible that explosives or drugs packed into the shape of battery cells might not be distinguishable from real batteries on an x-ray. So even though they don't want to snoop through your data (customs does that), they want to verify that it is a real working laptop.
  - jml7c5 7y ago
    It's a pretty crude test, since you could always gut the laptop (e.g., replace the battery with a tiny one that could only run the laptop for 20 minutes) and fill the remaining space with explosives. But as with any security, it does mean more technical skill and planning required to pull off such an attack.
    - jumpingmice 7y ago
      Yeah I mean it’s pure theater. For one thing, plenty of actual, authentic laptop batteries have exploded on airplanes. So the whole dichotomy between battery and explosive is false.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - gnu8 7y ago
        That's a good point. My Macbook is currently banned from airplanes.
  - huffmsa 7y ago
    Ah, classic bureaucratic thinking at work. Let's boot the semtex filled laptops right in the middle of the most crowded, heaviest choke point at the airport. Right next to the 30 gallon trash cans filled with liquid explosives and other combustibles we force people to discard. 250:1 kdr. Gg no re. See you later alligator, after 'while crocodile, don't forget to write.
    - Zenbit_UX 7y ago
      Found the counterstrike player. But seriously though, 250:1 kdr at the tsa checkpoint wouldn't have the same effect as a plane being taken down and a much lower kdr. If a clever terrorist was going to create such a device they'd better have a better choice of detonation button than the power switch. There also better off with one of those monstrously bulky windows gaming laptops than a MacBook air.
      - huffmsa 7y ago
        It'd be worse than taking down a plane. Us millennials are desensitized to that. But if you took out a security checkpoint, or all of them, airports would be forced to move screening to before you even got inside. There would be car checkpoints. It would take hours to get to your flight. Also a bit disappointed the Blaine the mono reference went unnoticed
- bonestamp2 7y ago
  I had customs boot my laptop once and they just searched for jpg and gif images. While the search ran she turned to me and said, "What kind of images am I going to find on here?". I had just got a new DSLR a few months earlier so it took about 30 minutes for the search to complete (2006 windows computer). She didn't say, but I guess they're looking for egregious images?
  - brewdad 7y ago
    They are looking for child porn. Or the classified images from Jason Bourne's personnel file.
  - smcl 7y ago
    Where was this!? They not only boot the device but they search it too?
    - bonestamp2 7y ago
      Yes, customs has legal authority to search all of your belongings which includes the files, emails, photos, text messages, etc on your devices. My only other option was to forfeit my computer. Since I like my computer and don't do anything illegal I allowed them to violate my privacy so I could keep my computer. After they had a good look I was on my way. From what I understand, the process has changed. These days they just image your hard drive and you're on your way after that. Then they upload your drive to a cloud system that looks through it for illegal activity. No joke. Again, you can forfeit your computer or phone but they will still try to image the drive.
      - astura 7y ago
        Customs is not TSA.
        bonestamp2 7y ago
        I agree. I never said TSA.
NullPrefix 7y ago
> Just like TSA booting my laptop ... when they do it my laptop boots into a Microsoft Windows environment that I’ve literally never used. When I boot the same machine I get netbsd. Weird, right ? What environment do devices with explosives instead of batteries boot into? Windows or *BSD?
marcinzm 7y ago
The number of people who can change the code on the machine is much larger than the number of people who can change the hardware on the machine to hide code changes. Checking the code prevents that group from having the opportunity to cheat.
debatem1 7y ago
It's basically an ad hoc attestation mechanism. In your case, it would be as if the TSA hashed your hard drive and you had already been compelled to give them a copy of it which they could analyze at their leisure. They could only tell if you had changed it, but in this case that's a smoking gun.
cududa 7y ago
...you’re insinuating the TSA can install Windows on your machine in a matter of seconds somehow?
- hobofan 7y ago
  No, just that they can show the TSA a Windows installation, and they will take it at face value. Just like the Gambling Comission is taking it at face vale that whatever they are "dumping" from the slot machine is what is actually running on it.

archgoon 7y ago

Just because a test doesn't catch all attacks doesn't mean that performing the test is security theatre. It's a bit like saying that ASLR and stack canaries are security theatre because they can be defeated by information leaks.

anarchodev 7y ago

wait, TSA boots your laptop now? I don't even understand what they'd expect to find?

gnu8 7y ago
Obviously, a laptop shell filled with semtex won't boot up. I think it's also possible that explosives or drugs packed into the shape of battery cells might not be distinguishable from real batteries on an x-ray. So even though they don't want to snoop through your data (customs does that), they want to verify that it is a real working laptop.
- jml7c5 7y ago
  It's a pretty crude test, since you could always gut the laptop (e.g., replace the battery with a tiny one that could only run the laptop for 20 minutes) and fill the remaining space with explosives. But as with any security, it does mean more technical skill and planning required to pull off such an attack.
  - jumpingmice 7y ago
    Yeah I mean it’s pure theater. For one thing, plenty of actual, authentic laptop batteries have exploded on airplanes. So the whole dichotomy between battery and explosive is false.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - gnu8 7y ago
      That's a good point. My Macbook is currently banned from airplanes.
- huffmsa 7y ago
  Ah, classic bureaucratic thinking at work. Let's boot the semtex filled laptops right in the middle of the most crowded, heaviest choke point at the airport. Right next to the 30 gallon trash cans filled with liquid explosives and other combustibles we force people to discard. 250:1 kdr. Gg no re. See you later alligator, after 'while crocodile, don't forget to write.
  - Zenbit_UX 7y ago
    Found the counterstrike player. But seriously though, 250:1 kdr at the tsa checkpoint wouldn't have the same effect as a plane being taken down and a much lower kdr. If a clever terrorist was going to create such a device they'd better have a better choice of detonation button than the power switch. There also better off with one of those monstrously bulky windows gaming laptops than a MacBook air.
    - huffmsa 7y ago
      It'd be worse than taking down a plane. Us millennials are desensitized to that. But if you took out a security checkpoint, or all of them, airports would be forced to move screening to before you even got inside. There would be car checkpoints. It would take hours to get to your flight. Also a bit disappointed the Blaine the mono reference went unnoticed
bonestamp2 7y ago
I had customs boot my laptop once and they just searched for jpg and gif images. While the search ran she turned to me and said, "What kind of images am I going to find on here?". I had just got a new DSLR a few months earlier so it took about 30 minutes for the search to complete (2006 windows computer). She didn't say, but I guess they're looking for egregious images?
- brewdad 7y ago
  They are looking for child porn. Or the classified images from Jason Bourne's personnel file.
- smcl 7y ago
  Where was this!? They not only boot the device but they search it too?
  - bonestamp2 7y ago
    Yes, customs has legal authority to search all of your belongings which includes the files, emails, photos, text messages, etc on your devices. My only other option was to forfeit my computer. Since I like my computer and don't do anything illegal I allowed them to violate my privacy so I could keep my computer. After they had a good look I was on my way. From what I understand, the process has changed. These days they just image your hard drive and you're on your way after that. Then they upload your drive to a cloud system that looks through it for illegal activity. No joke. Again, you can forfeit your computer or phone but they will still try to image the drive.
    - astura 7y ago
      Customs is not TSA.
      - bonestamp2 7y ago
        I agree. I never said TSA.

NullPrefix 7y ago

> Just like TSA booting my laptop ... when they do it my laptop boots into a Microsoft Windows environment that I’ve literally never used. When I boot the same machine I get netbsd. Weird, right ? What environment do devices with explosives instead of batteries boot into? Windows or *BSD?

marcinzm 7y ago

The number of people who can change the code on the machine is much larger than the number of people who can change the hardware on the machine to hide code changes. Checking the code prevents that group from having the opportunity to cheat.

debatem1 7y ago

It's basically an ad hoc attestation mechanism. In your case, it would be as if the TSA hashed your hard drive and you had already been compelled to give them a copy of it which they could analyze at their leisure. They could only tell if you had changed it, but in this case that's a smoking gun.

cududa 7y ago

...you’re insinuating the TSA can install Windows on your machine in a matter of seconds somehow?

hobofan 7y ago
No, just that they can show the TSA a Windows installation, and they will take it at face value. Just like the Gambling Comission is taking it at face vale that whatever they are "dumping" from the slot machine is what is actually running on it.