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> ineffective in empirical tests My guess (per my other comment below) is that there are not any empirical tests for real life situations. Which person does be

by gist 7y ago

> ineffective in empirical tests My guess (per my other comment below) is that there are not any empirical tests for real life situations. Which person does better in a street fight or trying to defend themselves from an attacker (potentially using deadly force) when there is life at stake and no rules. And no person to separate the two fighters (like there were in the video or there are in MMA).

hash872 7y ago
Early proto-MMA events in the US & Brazil literally had no rules (Google 'vale tudo'), and included groin strikes & eye gouges (Google 'Keith Hackney Joe Son'). They were actually underground fighting events, some held in illegal clubs, warehouses, basements- and, they were won by BJJ & Muay Thai guys- the constituent martial arts that make up what we call MMA today. You can actually find Vale Tudo fights on Youtube to see for yourself! Early UFC events also literally had no rules as well- and they were won by, first BJJ and then wrestling. TMA guys didn't fare so well even in the complete absence of rules. Police & military units the world over study MMA or the individual martial arts that make up MMA (BJJ, wrestling, boxing etc.)- not Kung Fu. Jocko Willink, a highly decorated 20 year Navy SEAL commander, is also a BJJ blackbelt and has specifically said that he used jiu-jitsu to subdue militants in close quarter combat, and that TMAs don't work. On the Joe Rogan podcast he talked about fighting other SEALs in the 90s who were into TMAs and beating them with jiu-jitsu..... Wouldn't an actual Navy SEAL with combat experience know more about what works in a 'real life situation'? I don't understand how 'person to separate the two fighters' makes it less realistic- they're there to prevent someone who's been KOed from suffering any more unnecessary strikes
- achenatx 7y ago
  jiu jitsu is a traditional martial art.. so is muay thai. If you go back through history, fighting hasnt changed much. There are ancient roman statues showing techniques used today. As fighters get too injured, arts start to specialize in one area, and often times become stylized to emphasize the art. Kung fu was eviscerated in the 1920s when fighting in the lei tai was banned. Before that time fights were often times to the death. Even MMA is watered down from its origin. Rule sets change to emphasize one kind of fight over another. For example bare knuckle favors grappling because you cant punch as hard without breaking your hand. Gloves favor strikers which are more fun to watch. kung fu includes sanda and sashou which fight as a combat sport.
- Jd 7y ago
  I've heard this from people other than yourself but are there any write ups or documentation of the "early days" of MMA/UFC?

by gist 7y ago

hash872 7y ago

Early proto-MMA events in the US & Brazil literally had no rules (Google 'vale tudo'), and included groin strikes & eye gouges (Google 'Keith Hackney Joe Son'). They were actually underground fighting events, some held in illegal clubs, warehouses, basements- and, they were won by BJJ & Muay Thai guys- the constituent martial arts that make up what we call MMA today. You can actually find Vale Tudo fights on Youtube to see for yourself! Early UFC events also literally had no rules as well- and they were won by, first BJJ and then wrestling. TMA guys didn't fare so well even in the complete absence of rules. Police & military units the world over study MMA or the individual martial arts that make up MMA (BJJ, wrestling, boxing etc.)- not Kung Fu. Jocko Willink, a highly decorated 20 year Navy SEAL commander, is also a BJJ blackbelt and has specifically said that he used jiu-jitsu to subdue militants in close quarter combat, and that TMAs don't work. On the Joe Rogan podcast he talked about fighting other SEALs in the 90s who were into TMAs and beating them with jiu-jitsu..... Wouldn't an actual Navy SEAL with combat experience know more about what works in a 'real life situation'? I don't understand how 'person to separate the two fighters' makes it less realistic- they're there to prevent someone who's been KOed from suffering any more unnecessary strikes

achenatx 7y ago
jiu jitsu is a traditional martial art.. so is muay thai. If you go back through history, fighting hasnt changed much. There are ancient roman statues showing techniques used today. As fighters get too injured, arts start to specialize in one area, and often times become stylized to emphasize the art. Kung fu was eviscerated in the 1920s when fighting in the lei tai was banned. Before that time fights were often times to the death. Even MMA is watered down from its origin. Rule sets change to emphasize one kind of fight over another. For example bare knuckle favors grappling because you cant punch as hard without breaking your hand. Gloves favor strikers which are more fun to watch. kung fu includes sanda and sashou which fight as a combat sport.
Jd 7y ago
I've heard this from people other than yourself but are there any write ups or documentation of the "early days" of MMA/UFC?