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You can side load Apps into Android and install competing stores all day long. The objection I have is that Google doesn't let you delegate that authority, it'

You can side load Apps into Android and install competing stores all day long. The objection I have is that Google doesn't let you delegate that authority, it's either "Let Google Manage It" or "Let everyone do whatever the hell they want".

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
gruez 7y ago
>The objection I have is that Google doesn't let you delegate that authority, it's either "Let Google Manage It" or "Let everyone do whatever the hell they want". What do you mean? After android 7 or 8, the "install unknown apps" permission was per-app rather than being a global setting[1]. That means you can allow f-droid to install apps but not your weather app. The only difference is that third party apps can't install apps "silently" (you have to manually confirm each install/update through a system dialog). [1] random image result: https://media.kasperskydaily.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/92/2018/09/24053328/android-8-permissions-unknown-apps-EN.png https://media.kasperskydaily.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/92...
- bubblethink 7y ago
  That is better, but not ideal. You don't have a way to trust developer keys independently. What's the point of trusting Chrome if everything can be installed through Chrome?
  - cptskippy 7y ago
    I could see that being valuable if it's a Store like Steam or Amazon. It's not any worse than Google Play right?
    - bubblethink 7y ago
      Yes, trusting a store like fdroid is the ideal case. However, most uninformed users would come across an apk file on their browser, trust Chrome, and then Chrome will happily install anything.
      - ShinTakuya 7y ago
        Not much different to installing things on a desktop OS.
        bubblethink 7y ago
        If you mean windows, perhaps to an extent. On linux though, it is straightforward to do fine grained management of gpg keys for repos/ppas etc. Essentially, from the end user's standpoint, what you want chrome to ask you is "Do you trust developer Foo for the app Bar?", not "Do you trust chrome to install software?"
      - Faark 7y ago
        The sad part is users being trained to just click away those warnings. Installing one of the few big & trusted third party stores should not require me to go through the same warnings as getting an APK from some random third party page. Though obviously Google won't be willing to grant that much control to a third party, even if revocable.
        cptskippy 7y ago
        > Installing one of the few big & trusted third party stores should not require me to go through the same warnings as getting an APK from some random third party page. Honestly I think there should be a distinction between normal permissions and permissions required to install other APKs. AND I think it should be more cumbersome to install an APK that wants permission to install other APKs.
- cptskippy 7y ago
  > After android 7 or 8 That's at most 30% of devices?
  - gruez 7y ago
    https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards 38.7% (8+ only) or 57.9% (if you include 7)
    - cptskippy 7y ago
      He said after 7 or 8. That excludes 7 and possibly 8. I have a 7.1.1 device and can confirm they have the global toggle still.
  - GeneralTspoon 7y ago
    7+ is over 50% of devices: https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards And will eventually be all/most devices.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - cptskippy 7y ago
      Yes, but we're not talking 7+, we're talking >7 which is very different. I am on 7.1.1 and Allow Unknown Sources is still a global on/off toggle.
- Youden 7y ago
  > The only difference is that third party apps can't install apps "silently" (you have to manually confirm each install/update through a system dialog). That's a huge difference. Try downloading and maintaining apps installed with F-Droid on a device where it doesn't have system privileges. It's a massive pain in the butt.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

gruez 7y ago

>The objection I have is that Google doesn't let you delegate that authority, it's either "Let Google Manage It" or "Let everyone do whatever the hell they want". What do you mean? After android 7 or 8, the "install unknown apps" permission was per-app rather than being a global setting[1]. That means you can allow f-droid to install apps but not your weather app. The only difference is that third party apps can't install apps "silently" (you have to manually confirm each install/update through a system dialog). [1] random image result: https://media.kasperskydaily.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/92/2018/09/24053328/android-8-permissions-unknown-apps-EN.png https://media.kasperskydaily.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/92...

bubblethink 7y ago
That is better, but not ideal. You don't have a way to trust developer keys independently. What's the point of trusting Chrome if everything can be installed through Chrome?
- cptskippy 7y ago
  I could see that being valuable if it's a Store like Steam or Amazon. It's not any worse than Google Play right?
  - bubblethink 7y ago
    Yes, trusting a store like fdroid is the ideal case. However, most uninformed users would come across an apk file on their browser, trust Chrome, and then Chrome will happily install anything.
    - ShinTakuya 7y ago
      Not much different to installing things on a desktop OS.
      - bubblethink 7y ago
        If you mean windows, perhaps to an extent. On linux though, it is straightforward to do fine grained management of gpg keys for repos/ppas etc. Essentially, from the end user's standpoint, what you want chrome to ask you is "Do you trust developer Foo for the app Bar?", not "Do you trust chrome to install software?"
    - Faark 7y ago
      The sad part is users being trained to just click away those warnings. Installing one of the few big & trusted third party stores should not require me to go through the same warnings as getting an APK from some random third party page. Though obviously Google won't be willing to grant that much control to a third party, even if revocable.
      - cptskippy 7y ago
        > Installing one of the few big & trusted third party stores should not require me to go through the same warnings as getting an APK from some random third party page. Honestly I think there should be a distinction between normal permissions and permissions required to install other APKs. AND I think it should be more cumbersome to install an APK that wants permission to install other APKs.
cptskippy 7y ago
> After android 7 or 8 That's at most 30% of devices?
- gruez 7y ago
  https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards 38.7% (8+ only) or 57.9% (if you include 7)
  - cptskippy 7y ago
    He said after 7 or 8. That excludes 7 and possibly 8. I have a 7.1.1 device and can confirm they have the global toggle still.
- GeneralTspoon 7y ago
  7+ is over 50% of devices: https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards And will eventually be all/most devices.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - cptskippy 7y ago
    Yes, but we're not talking 7+, we're talking >7 which is very different. I am on 7.1.1 and Allow Unknown Sources is still a global on/off toggle.
Youden 7y ago
> The only difference is that third party apps can't install apps "silently" (you have to manually confirm each install/update through a system dialog). That's a huge difference. Try downloading and maintaining apps installed with F-Droid on a device where it doesn't have system privileges. It's a massive pain in the butt.