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Over the last few years reading HN comments a part of me can't help but think that the more criticism leveled at an application or technology the more useful it

Over the last few years reading HN comments a part of me can't help but think that the more criticism leveled at an application or technology the more useful it is for end users. This is probably true for Node, PHP, MySQL and Wordpress to name a few. Kovid Goyal should take the criticisms a sign Calibre is very useful to end users.

filmgirlcw 7y ago
I totally agree. In my case, it’s definitely a case of “I bitch because I care” — and I am very appreciative of the app and the hard work that has gone into it. I cannot imagine doing all of that myself and making the app free at that. I do think it’s a shame the codebase is such that seems to prevent meaningful contributions/collaboration that might improve things — but Kovid has done something amazing, make no mistake. And more to the point — we all complain about Calibre, yet no other app exists that even does a fraction of what it does.
- mmsimanga 7y ago
  I guess there is something to be said about applications purely focused on user needs and not engineering. MS Excel and MS Access applications vs applications developed by engineers using the latest framework. On a personal level I was happy Drupal end user because whilst I am a developer I am not a web developer. Drupal 7 was useful to me it allowed me to create useful web applications similar to using MS Access on the desktop. I cannot even get the well engineered Drupal 8 running because I honestly don't have the time to first learn things like Composer.
- zanny 7y ago
  > I cannot imagine doing all of that myself and making the app free at that. The only reason we are here talking about it is because its free software. Its not even about price, its about how Calibre evolved thanks to a community that grew around it. Maybe someone could start a proprietary ebook library program, charge for it, and make a living that way. But it would get orders of magnitude less usage and have done that much less good for the whole of mankind as a result. And the work of one person, or even a small team, is unlikely to accomplish all the features Calibre has because few people will recognize the collective needs of all book readers the way an open bug tracker and merge requests can.
- Razengan 7y ago
  > “I bitch because I care” This. Or: "I WANT it to be better." It's sad that the response to that is often "Stop bitching or stop using it", "Make it yourself", or "If you don't like it why don't you go somewhere else?" (and it's often from other users who try to speak on behalf on the developers.)
Paradigma11 7y ago
Because otherwise it would no be talked about on HN. Nobody cares about the myriads of ugly, bad designed apps that are not useful.
- mmsimanga 7y ago
  A counter point, nobody cares about the well engineered apps that have not been completed or do not have features useful to the end users.
MayeulC 7y ago
It could be that, the more users a product has, the more criticism it will receive (say, if one percent of users always complain). I also know I sometimes complain about some software I really like, as it would be completely perfect for me with this or that one additionnal feature.
elgenie 7y ago
Stroustroup's version of this (about C++, of course): “There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses.” The problem is that, even if true, this chestnut doesn't say anything about whether the criticism is justified or whether the degree and correctness of criticism is commensurate what one would expect of a quality product given the language/software's usage.

filmgirlcw 7y ago

I totally agree. In my case, it’s definitely a case of “I bitch because I care” — and I am very appreciative of the app and the hard work that has gone into it. I cannot imagine doing all of that myself and making the app free at that. I do think it’s a shame the codebase is such that seems to prevent meaningful contributions/collaboration that might improve things — but Kovid has done something amazing, make no mistake. And more to the point — we all complain about Calibre, yet no other app exists that even does a fraction of what it does.

mmsimanga 7y ago
I guess there is something to be said about applications purely focused on user needs and not engineering. MS Excel and MS Access applications vs applications developed by engineers using the latest framework. On a personal level I was happy Drupal end user because whilst I am a developer I am not a web developer. Drupal 7 was useful to me it allowed me to create useful web applications similar to using MS Access on the desktop. I cannot even get the well engineered Drupal 8 running because I honestly don't have the time to first learn things like Composer.
zanny 7y ago
> I cannot imagine doing all of that myself and making the app free at that. The only reason we are here talking about it is because its free software. Its not even about price, its about how Calibre evolved thanks to a community that grew around it. Maybe someone could start a proprietary ebook library program, charge for it, and make a living that way. But it would get orders of magnitude less usage and have done that much less good for the whole of mankind as a result. And the work of one person, or even a small team, is unlikely to accomplish all the features Calibre has because few people will recognize the collective needs of all book readers the way an open bug tracker and merge requests can.
Razengan 7y ago
> “I bitch because I care” This. Or: "I WANT it to be better." It's sad that the response to that is often "Stop bitching or stop using it", "Make it yourself", or "If you don't like it why don't you go somewhere else?" (and it's often from other users who try to speak on behalf on the developers.)

Paradigma11 7y ago

Because otherwise it would no be talked about on HN. Nobody cares about the myriads of ugly, bad designed apps that are not useful.

mmsimanga 7y ago
A counter point, nobody cares about the well engineered apps that have not been completed or do not have features useful to the end users.

MayeulC 7y ago

It could be that, the more users a product has, the more criticism it will receive (say, if one percent of users always complain). I also know I sometimes complain about some software I really like, as it would be completely perfect for me with this or that one additionnal feature.

elgenie 7y ago

Stroustroup's version of this (about C++, of course): “There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses.” The problem is that, even if true, this chestnut doesn't say anything about whether the criticism is justified or whether the degree and correctness of criticism is commensurate what one would expect of a quality product given the language/software's usage.