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Bus rapid transit is a powerful tool to have available for transportation planning. As you mention, it's a relatively simple and cheap proposition to upgrade f

Bus rapid transit is a powerful tool to have available for transportation planning. As you mention, it's a relatively simple and cheap proposition to upgrade from a street. But it's not reasonable to say it's "the right-of-way, plain and simple". Light rail is significantly more energy-efficient than buses, a factor that must be taken into account in an honest evaluation of the options.

otterley 7y ago
1. Light rail is far more expensive to build; and if it's electric powered (overhead or third rail), the infrastructure must be provisioned. I'd be incredibly surprised if the energy savings over the depreciation period of a bus or rail coach fleet, added to the opportunity cost paid by riders waiting for the construction, paid for the difference. Also, a light rail option that doesn't have right of way is far worse (economically speaking) and will be far less popular than a bus fleet that does. VTA, which features the worst of both worlds (the speed of a bus in city traffic with the cost and inflexibility of a fixed electric light rail) in Santa Clara county, is incredibly unpopular. 2. As we move towards renewable energy sources like wind, geothermal, and solar, electric buses, powered by stored-energy batteries, become arguably "good enough". But that's less an energy-efficiency concern (although these are close to "free" after fixed costs have been paid) and more of a pollution concern.
- couchand 7y ago
  Your general points are reasonable, but the arguments you're making are absurd. > the opportunity cost paid by riders waiting for the construction There is absolutely no reason that a city can't deploy a BRT system in the short-term while building the light rail. This is in fact a common strategy. > a light rail option that doesn't have right of way is far worse (economically speaking) and will be far less popular than a bus fleet that does. I agree that right-of-way is important, you are attacking a straw man. > electric buses, powered by stored-energy batteries, become arguably "good enough". But that's less an energy-efficiency concern Energy efficiency will always be a concern, regardless of the method of generation. But! It's significantly easier today to deploy light rail powered by renewable sources than a comparable bus system. Today the gold standard for buses is CNG, which, while much less polluting than gasoline, is still a non-renewable resource.
  - asdff 7y ago
    LADOT is rolling out electric buses already to test them on certain routes at least. Personally I think light rail is a stop gap measure. Light rail in LA is slow and crowded and you can only make stations so long which limits how many cars you can have on a train. Running it at grade doesn't help either and limits the minimum headway that the system can achieve. Heavy rail is a better option. It's faster and transports more people at once than any BRT or LRT, and is costlier of course. But as they say, the fool pays twice.
  - otterley 7y ago
    The gold standard for buses today is electric: https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/05/how-china-charged-into-the-electric-bus-revolution/559571/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/05/how-china-cha... I still don't see the point in having light rail, if bus thoroughfares with right-of-way are good enough for customers.

otterley 7y ago

1. Light rail is far more expensive to build; and if it's electric powered (overhead or third rail), the infrastructure must be provisioned. I'd be incredibly surprised if the energy savings over the depreciation period of a bus or rail coach fleet, added to the opportunity cost paid by riders waiting for the construction, paid for the difference. Also, a light rail option that doesn't have right of way is far worse (economically speaking) and will be far less popular than a bus fleet that does. VTA, which features the worst of both worlds (the speed of a bus in city traffic with the cost and inflexibility of a fixed electric light rail) in Santa Clara county, is incredibly unpopular. 2. As we move towards renewable energy sources like wind, geothermal, and solar, electric buses, powered by stored-energy batteries, become arguably "good enough". But that's less an energy-efficiency concern (although these are close to "free" after fixed costs have been paid) and more of a pollution concern.

couchand 7y ago
Your general points are reasonable, but the arguments you're making are absurd. > the opportunity cost paid by riders waiting for the construction There is absolutely no reason that a city can't deploy a BRT system in the short-term while building the light rail. This is in fact a common strategy. > a light rail option that doesn't have right of way is far worse (economically speaking) and will be far less popular than a bus fleet that does. I agree that right-of-way is important, you are attacking a straw man. > electric buses, powered by stored-energy batteries, become arguably "good enough". But that's less an energy-efficiency concern Energy efficiency will always be a concern, regardless of the method of generation. But! It's significantly easier today to deploy light rail powered by renewable sources than a comparable bus system. Today the gold standard for buses is CNG, which, while much less polluting than gasoline, is still a non-renewable resource.
- asdff 7y ago
  LADOT is rolling out electric buses already to test them on certain routes at least. Personally I think light rail is a stop gap measure. Light rail in LA is slow and crowded and you can only make stations so long which limits how many cars you can have on a train. Running it at grade doesn't help either and limits the minimum headway that the system can achieve. Heavy rail is a better option. It's faster and transports more people at once than any BRT or LRT, and is costlier of course. But as they say, the fool pays twice.
- otterley 7y ago
  The gold standard for buses today is electric: https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/05/how-china-charged-into-the-electric-bus-revolution/559571/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/05/how-china-cha... I still don't see the point in having light rail, if bus thoroughfares with right-of-way are good enough for customers.