4 ms·

Alright. In France or in Germany, if you walked up to a police officer and started saying in a bright clear voice "The Holocaust didn't happen" (in French or Ge

Alright. In France or in Germany, if you walked up to a police officer and started saying in a bright clear voice "The Holocaust didn't happen" (in French or German of course), what do you think would be the more likely response: 1) "You're under arrest" 2) "Fuck off, nerd"

tom_mellior 7y ago
I can't say for France or Germany since I didn't invest the 30 seconds in a web search, but here is a statistic for Austria: https://kurier.at/politik/inland/335-rechtsextreme-taten-im-ersten-halbjahr-2018/400108634 https://kurier.at/politik/inland/335-rechtsextreme-taten-im-... (in German) 798 prosecutions for Nazi activities in 2017, 409 in the first half of 2018. These are not all politicians, nor all the occasional public figure like David Irving. They are average Joes, posting or saying something in public or drawing swastikas on things. The article doesn't say what activities were prosecuted in detail; the law prohibits much more than just Holocaust denial: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbotsgesetz_1947 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbotsgesetz_1947, but all of them are of the form "you are not allowed to say certain things". You might meet a right-wing policeman who doesn't mind, or you might have to put something in writing or be caught on camera, but overall these are not things that the justice system takes lightly.
- throwwwwwwwaway 7y ago
  No you don't understand. When people get prosecuted for Nazi activities it's usually much more than merely saying "The Holocaust didn't happen." Americans in general really overestimate the extent to which these kinds of laws are enforced. This generally stems from a divide between the 'spirit of the law' (it's mainly meant to prohibit political figures from being openly Nazi) and the 'letter of the law' (thinking a policeman will literally handcuff you if you say 'The Holocaust didn't happen' to their face). Americans generally feel the need to spell out every little thing for fear of the law being gamed or selective enforcement (this is why EULAs and License agreements have obnoxious 20-page unreadable legalese crap), whereas continental Europe has a more relaxed approach to the spirit of the law and favors clarity through brevity. A similar misunderstanding arose when GDPR enforcement was looming.
  - tom_mellior 7y ago
    I quoted figures. What do you have to support your claims?
    - throwwwwwwaway 7y ago
      And I told you your figures were misleading. What's with HN posters and their fetishizing of numbers?

tom_mellior 7y ago

I can't say for France or Germany since I didn't invest the 30 seconds in a web search, but here is a statistic for Austria: https://kurier.at/politik/inland/335-rechtsextreme-taten-im-ersten-halbjahr-2018/400108634 https://kurier.at/politik/inland/335-rechtsextreme-taten-im-... (in German) 798 prosecutions for Nazi activities in 2017, 409 in the first half of 2018. These are not all politicians, nor all the occasional public figure like David Irving. They are average Joes, posting or saying something in public or drawing swastikas on things. The article doesn't say what activities were prosecuted in detail; the law prohibits much more than just Holocaust denial: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbotsgesetz_1947 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbotsgesetz_1947, but all of them are of the form "you are not allowed to say certain things". You might meet a right-wing policeman who doesn't mind, or you might have to put something in writing or be caught on camera, but overall these are not things that the justice system takes lightly.

throwwwwwwwaway 7y ago
No you don't understand. When people get prosecuted for Nazi activities it's usually much more than merely saying "The Holocaust didn't happen." Americans in general really overestimate the extent to which these kinds of laws are enforced. This generally stems from a divide between the 'spirit of the law' (it's mainly meant to prohibit political figures from being openly Nazi) and the 'letter of the law' (thinking a policeman will literally handcuff you if you say 'The Holocaust didn't happen' to their face). Americans generally feel the need to spell out every little thing for fear of the law being gamed or selective enforcement (this is why EULAs and License agreements have obnoxious 20-page unreadable legalese crap), whereas continental Europe has a more relaxed approach to the spirit of the law and favors clarity through brevity. A similar misunderstanding arose when GDPR enforcement was looming.
- tom_mellior 7y ago
  I quoted figures. What do you have to support your claims?
  - throwwwwwwaway 7y ago
    And I told you your figures were misleading. What's with HN posters and their fetishizing of numbers?