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That's true, but it doesn't make sense for people like the parent I responded to to act as if people's own choices have no role in their condition. If you want

That's true, but it doesn't make sense for people like the parent I responded to to act as if people's own choices have no role in their condition. If you want to spend all day, every day watching sports then it shouldn't be an issue if you don't get a head in life. It's a personal choice, but you can't have it both ways.

ddingus 7y ago
Both of you have valid points. I too am one of those people who overcame a lot early in life. Our choices matter. Of course they do. What is often not discussed is a reasonable, modest life. For many people, that is all they want, and our current society is growing toxic to it. The "game" of life does not need to be as hard as it currently is. Nor does it need to select for extremes. No matter how great our ability to choose is, the fact is only a fraction of us will do well, and the rest are going to really struggle and that is unnecessary. The other fact is luck plays a huge role.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  > only a fraction of us will do well, and the rest are going to really struggle and that is unnecessary. I'm not entirely sure it's unnecessary. Not everyone can live an upper middle class lifestyle. My main message is that there's culture changes that can and must be enacted within those communities or individuals that will provide opportunity.
  - ddingus 7y ago
    Yes, and the system we live under selects away from that. A majority are struggling today. Unnecessary.
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      I think you'll find it's not just "today". The majority have always struggled.
      - ddingus 7y ago
        Regardless, the current and growing level of struggle is unnecessary. Examples elsewhere in the world are not hard to find.
        malvosenior 7y ago
        I'm not sure I agree with you. By pretty much every measure, humans are living better lives than in all of the history of humanity. https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy
        ddingus 7y ago
        In basic terms, wealth is about time. Poor people, regardless of the relative wealth or advancement in the society they live in, have most of their time purposed for them. Wealthy people purpose most of their time. The majority struggling are poor in this sense. That is unnecessary. As a species, yes! We are doing well. No argument. Here, right now, in the US, a majority suffer. Their income is not up to their cost and risk exposure, particularly with health care. They labor too much. I could go on. Massive gains have not played out as solid gains in life quality and wealth basics most would agree were set decades ago.
  - ddingus 7y ago
    I strongly disagree. Basic, systemic change is needed. Blaming people holds no answers.

ddingus 7y ago

Both of you have valid points. I too am one of those people who overcame a lot early in life. Our choices matter. Of course they do. What is often not discussed is a reasonable, modest life. For many people, that is all they want, and our current society is growing toxic to it. The "game" of life does not need to be as hard as it currently is. Nor does it need to select for extremes. No matter how great our ability to choose is, the fact is only a fraction of us will do well, and the rest are going to really struggle and that is unnecessary. The other fact is luck plays a huge role.

malvosenior 7y ago
> only a fraction of us will do well, and the rest are going to really struggle and that is unnecessary. I'm not entirely sure it's unnecessary. Not everyone can live an upper middle class lifestyle. My main message is that there's culture changes that can and must be enacted within those communities or individuals that will provide opportunity.
- ddingus 7y ago
  Yes, and the system we live under selects away from that. A majority are struggling today. Unnecessary.
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    I think you'll find it's not just "today". The majority have always struggled.
    - ddingus 7y ago
      Regardless, the current and growing level of struggle is unnecessary. Examples elsewhere in the world are not hard to find.
      - malvosenior 7y ago
        I'm not sure I agree with you. By pretty much every measure, humans are living better lives than in all of the history of humanity. https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy
        ddingus 7y ago
        In basic terms, wealth is about time. Poor people, regardless of the relative wealth or advancement in the society they live in, have most of their time purposed for them. Wealthy people purpose most of their time. The majority struggling are poor in this sense. That is unnecessary. As a species, yes! We are doing well. No argument. Here, right now, in the US, a majority suffer. Their income is not up to their cost and risk exposure, particularly with health care. They labor too much. I could go on. Massive gains have not played out as solid gains in life quality and wealth basics most would agree were set decades ago.
- ddingus 7y ago
  I strongly disagree. Basic, systemic change is needed. Blaming people holds no answers.