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A dissident who beats up Tai Chi masters
- BubRoss 7y agoTldr: He has MMA training. People who pretend they can fight using martial arts that have no full contact sparring or resisting opponents stand no chance. Some have fooled themselves into thinking they can fight. They get their ass kicked and end up humiliated by their own delusion. China is embarrassed that their traditional martial arts don't work for MMA or self defense.
- Quekid5 7y agoI think the CCP angle is interesting because they want to project this image of 'perfection' in the rest of the world. The only problem is that almost everybody knows it's BS. So are the powers themselves ignorant of what the "West" thinks of them? What gives? EDIT: I suppose I should add a little thing here for people who take the more practical angle: The point during these fights is that there's an idea (in how the announcers set it up) of Western vs. Eastern/Chinese. He's just demonstrating that there's 'it works' and 'ineffectual'. Aka: Science!
- agota 7y agoI think you are overestimating the percentage of the general population that understand that traditional martial arts are BS (with obvious exceptions such as Muay Thai). A regular person with no previous martial arts training is easy prey for the "masters". That's why these traditional martial arts gyms still exist.
- slothtrop 7y agoYou can argue they're still an art even if they're less effective in a match, though they should be more upfront about it.
- _bxg1 7y agoI think the takeaway is not that "traditional martial arts are BS", but that the CCP cares only about appearances, and so has funded legions of false masters in an attempt to project cultural superiority, and this guy is calling them out on it. It's a microcosm of their entire propaganda-state and the corruption that it's rife with. Even their finance reporting follows the same pattern.
- Quekid5 7y agoYou absolutely nailed it. Thank you.
- rscho 7y agoTraditional martial arts practiced in a modern way are BS. Ancient practitioners were no jokes.
- kofejnik 7y agothere's no evidence of that whatsoever somewhere on youtube, there's a clip of two grandmasters fighting in front of a large audience, in the 1950s I think? It's bw and terrible quality, but it's quite obvious that either one of them would've been whooped in a bar fight on Friday night
- achenatx 7y agochina outlawed wushu fighting (lei tan) in the 1920s. Before that point masters would maim/kill each other and take over each other's schools. We know of kung fu in the united states, but there is also sanda/sanshou which actually fight. Shaolin is more about art than the martial.
- hash872 7y agoI don't think a high % of Chinese- or really any culture where MMA isn't big- know that their traditional martial arts are BS. It took a couple of decades here in the US for people to realize that TMAs are mostly nonsense. From what I've heard, the CCP wants to preserve & promote traditional Chinese culture, which includes their native martial arts. They view MMA as a Western influence, so they want to keep it out
- trenning 7y agoThe UFC just had an event in Shenzhen in August. In fact a Chinese MMA fighter (Zhang Weili) beat the then current champion to become strawweight division champ. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Weili https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Weili
- hash872 7y agoI'm aware. In general the Party has not been very enthusiastic about MMA/western martial arts- they see it as a cultural influence thing. I agree that they're not outright banned
- Quekid5 7y agoI hate to be cynical, but once you get a winner you're probably going to want to keep on winning, right...? Btw, that's what I think the CCP is: Cynical to the utmost extreme. If they sense that the wind is changing they'll adapt. There are limits to how far they'll adapt, obviously[0], but for something like this (cultural heritage vs. whatever), I don't doubt they'll do it soonish. Except for pictures of Winnie the Pooh juxtaposed on the Leader's head. (I mean... how petty can you get?) [0] Self-preservation would be a top-priority, I imagine. Maybe for the party, but not necessarily.
- ncmncm 7y agoThat event is cited in the article.
- gist 7y ago> It took a couple of decades here in the US for people to realize that TMAs are mostly nonsense. How are they mostly nonsense? A typical case might be use in an unavoidable situation where some kind of defense is needed. Most people would probably want some kind of 'training' to be able to call on. That is if you can't walk away or avoid which would be the first choice. [1] Most people are probably not training thinking they are going to fight a determined adversary in a real battle. Saying it is 'mostly nonsense' is the same as saying locks are of no value. [1] That said I do think that training people for a night or a few lessons 'women learn how to defend yourself if attacked!' is for sure going to cause more harm than good very generally.
- mikelyons 7y agoIt seems to me that, similar to DPRK, they don't care so much about what the rest of the world thinks, they care more about what their own population thinks the rest of the world thinks ...
- rscho 7y agoAncient kung-fu training used to actually be serious though. Strange that it changed so much. That said, karate also has become a sort of ballet dancing. That's a proof that ballet dancing lessons sell better than combat training. Who would have thought, right? :-) https://www.amazon.com/Bundle-Michael-Clarke-Collection-Redemption/dp/B0713X39HB/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?keywords=karate+conditioning&qid=1570218561&sr=8-6 https://www.amazon.com/Bundle-Michael-Clarke-Collection-Rede...
- hootbootscoot 7y agosurprise suprise, the modern office worker is more likely to die from a heart attack or other health issue related to sedentary lifestyles than an attacker jumping them. fitness is popular ever since people stopped burning all the calories they eat part and parcel to their earning of the daily same...
- renox 7y agoThat's not surprising at all: look at jujitsu and judo: the first is a martial art, the last is a sport, who has more practioner? The sport obviously. And that's fine as long as you know what you get (good shape), if you're under the illusion that with judo you can win real fights then it's dangerous..
- alephnan 7y agoThis is a misleading TLDR. The article focuses on Chinese political dissidence moreso than MMA.
- CM30 7y agoReminds me of the folks at Bullshido, who do similar stuff to expose martial arts frauds and McDojos outside of China. Wonder if this guy has an account there, or is considering English versions of some of his videos? Definitely feels like they'd find a larger audience here.
- Quekid5 7y agoThis is a "magical thinking" vs. "thinking" exercise. I absolutely applaud him for doing it. I can't imagine standing up for rationality being this costly (personally). I think we underestimate how fortunate many of us are.
- chillacy 7y agoThere are some entertaining takedowns of mind readers and faith healers on youtube, glad the government doesn't try to protect tarot reading as some sort of cultural gem.
- jbob2000 7y ago> According to Xu, more than 100 martial artists looking to avenge Wei challenged him in the aftermath of the fight. Xu took out a pencil and paper, ranked his challengers in order of priority, and set about in earnest on his now-famous quest to “fight fakes” (“fake” and “battle” are homophones in Mandarin). As of this writing, Xu has fought 17 of those challengers in public matches. He has defeated them all. This is straight out of an episode of Letterkenny, where one of the guys proves that he’s the best fighter in the town. Hilarious episode, can’t believe it actually happens in real life. Season 1, episode 2 if you’re curious.
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- mrbonner 7y agoOne of my "sniff" test to evaluate a martial art is whether it is taught in the police academy or in the military. I used to rely on the Olympics to do this kind of evaluation but not now due to heavy inclination toward the "art" form more than "martial" form. For example, Jiu-jitsu, Karate-jutsu, Krav maga are very popular among police academy & military camps around the world. Even Ken-jitsu is taught in Tokyo police academy as well, though not very popular outside of Japan. Those martial arts are designed not only to be very practical in physical contact (neutralize opponent in the shortest amount of time) but also increase the mental toughness. Their cousins (replace the jitsu with do) are more sporty and humane, thus popular in the Olympics. Growing up watching a lot of Kung-fu/Wushu movies from Hong Kong, I was amazed how artistic it was: beautiful kicks, long-rally sparring time. After getting into Ken-do and boxing, I noticed a typical sparring match lasts at most a few minutes. Then, I came to realize that how a practical martial art is vs. the one with more emphasis on art form. I'm sure certain styles/forms of Kung-fu are more practical (i.e: focusing more on neutralize opponent) as they were intended to be. But over time, the dramatization of motion pictures destroy its original purposes.
- ksec 7y agoWing Chun is also taught and used around the world in police academy & military camps. But that is not to say it is better than Muray Thai, and I don't see Muray Thai being used for this purpose. >Growing up watching a lot of Kung-fu/Wushu movies from Hong Kong The problem with Kung-fu/Wushu itself, it is for one people over idolise it, second being it completely lost most of its root in Mainland China during the 2nd World War and later CCP forbid the use of it. ( At one point they over emphasise science / Guns / technology and calling Wushu as old fashioned and not up with time during the Cultural Revolution, of course in reality CCP doesn't want to arm people with fighting skills ) Most of the Grand Masters ran for life and arrived to Hong Kong during that time, that quickly spread out as a culture and hence why later you see many Kung Fu movies from Hong Kong.
- thesaint 7y agoThai boxing is a sport. Wing chun is a martial art. I have learnt both. When defending myself in the street I am not using Thai boxing..
- ericmcer 7y agoIt doesn’t seem crazy that these master would allow people to believe their teachings. That would just make them convincing woo woo con men. To actually stand in the ring with someone and fight bare knuckled, when your opponent is younger and has 50lbs on you is insane though. Are they really that delusional about their training? If so that actually is dangerous, if you are 120lb woman you shouldnt behave like you can easily fend off large men, no matter how good at tai chi or pressure points you are.
- chillacy 7y agoThe stuff they're doing is sort of similar to hypnosis, where you have people who are open to suggestion carry out the suggestions of someone confident, and the best way to exude perfect confidence is to actually believe you have powers. That's what I imagine at least.
- pasabagi 7y agoI agree - this is definitely the really bizarre part. The fact that not just one, but multiple people have proactively sought out this guy to fight is insane. I mean, the first one I can sort of understand. Obviously, you still have to have some serious brain problems to want to fight a guy who looks like that, but it's at least normal-human-range levels of self-deception. But surely, after seeing the initial Tai Chi master getting the crap beaten out of him, then the next, then the next - what on earth is going on? That's more than drinking the Koolaid. That's watching all your friends get poisoned, then going to the punch bowl and getting yourself a cup.
- rasz 7y agoIts a Face thing. You cant not speak up when your students expect their Sifu to 'stand up to the bully'. You cant deny the dude a fight after he shows in your dojo with cameras.
- seibelj 7y agoThe Chinese government is just so pathetic, like why be afraid of this guy? The deep insecurity shows such weakness. Letting your people point at the man on top and call him names shows strength. Banning someone from taking a train for beating up scam artists is so incredibly lame.
- shitgoose 7y agoall governments are pathetic. did US government show strength while dealing with Liberty Dollars? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_dollar_(private_currency) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_dollar_(private_curren... governments are dumb but sometimes they are able to identify the most dangerous threats with great precision.
- jeanvalmarc 7y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- ncmncm 7y agoDoes not apply. The example amplifies the original charge.
- lenkite 7y agoMaking and distributing your own private currency in the US with a dollar sign, the dollar word and the words "Trust in God" was clearly construed to be a federal crime. Let's be honest here - that sort of action would be criminal in any nation. Does China have a law that prevents contenders from challenging Tai-Chi masters ?
- shitgoose 7y agoIt is not clear what federal laws are broken specifically by using words "Dollar" and "Trust in God". The point I was making is that Tai-Chi became part of mythology created by CPC that is bonding the society. Slightest challenge is not tolerated. Same with Liberty Dollars - these coupons do not violate any laws, but challenge the state's monopoly on money creation.
- mrageh 7y agoThe best way to know whether a martial art is useful in combat is to see if it's used by professional MMA fighters.
- ezoe 7y agoAll so called self-claimed traditional martial arts masters who oppose the Xu are pathetic in terms of body mass. On a hand-to-hand combat with no rule, body mass works. Joint lock works with equally trained fighters.
- malicioususer11 7y agoHahaha! Wei Lei in that video posring was so fucking fake. Sad, really. "Govenment Sponsored Tai Chi". Hahahahaha!!
- specialist 7y agoThis is about contradicting the powers that be, not martial arts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong#Persecution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong#Persecution