4 ms·

Is there a reason to make these sorts of exoskeletons human-shaped for the purposes of helping the disabled? Isn't it easier to make something like a centaur w

by avar 7y ago

Is there a reason to make these sorts of exoskeletons human-shaped for the purposes of helping the disabled? Isn't it easier to make something like a centaur where there's a second set of rear legs? That would also lower the center of gravity since the backpack on this one could be the "torso" on the centaur. Balancing something on four legs is also much simpler. That sort of platform could also trivially turn into a wheeled vehicle by having sets of wheels on each of the four legs that could rotate into place. That would be much more power-efficient than walking in most urban settings.

Roritharr 7y ago
I imagine something on the basis of Boston Dynamics Big Dog would also be a perfect fit, while culturally extremely jarring to watch.
rorykoehler 7y ago
The world is designed for humans so it's probably easier to adapt to the environment rather than the other way around.
- Drakim 7y ago
  This is also why human-shaped robots will be a lot more useful than centaur-shaped robot. Your human-shaped robot can carry a package and use a normal sized elevator to deliver it to the top floor. It can drive your old school gas car. It can fit wherever humans can fit.
  - avar 7y ago
    A man in a centaur suit still has hands so they can carry a package, and if a room has something the size of a very small table in it someone trailing a second set of legs could get there too. Even something the size of a horse could get into most human infrastructure, if most horses weren't so petrified of everything. The man in the article has the equivalent of a big hiking backpack on his back, he couldn't drive most cars either without leaning the seat all the way back. To turn that into a centaur just means angling the same backpack 90 degrees with another set of legs.
TuringTest 7y ago
Standing on two feet gives an impression of a self-supporting body. Having a support at the back would give the impression that the body is transported by a forklift. It's irrational, but we know how the irrational deeply affects human relations. Think how accepted are those "telepresence robots" that go around campuses looking like a TV set hooked up to a vacuum cleaner (hint: they're creepy). You don't want to make the same impression.
pjc50 7y ago
If it's under neural control, it's going to be much easier for a human to learn to walk again on two legs than it is on four.
probably_wrong 7y ago
My guess is that it's not only about "external" improvement but also "internal". Externally, your centaur design is more stable and probably easier to design. It would also allow you to do some (highly specific) tasks that a boring, two-legged human could not do. Like Aimee Mullins said in her TED talk[1], this would make you not so much "disabled", but rather "super-abled". Internally, however, you also want those using the exoskeleton to regain their feeling of belonging. That is, you don't want the to "just" walk - you also want them to walk exactly like everybody else. To quote from this book [2], "You don’t always feel inferior, mostly just out of place. Sometimes though, you feel a pang in your chest, a bit like a short, sharp stab. You know what it is instantly… It's there to remind you – you’ll never be quite the same, never on the same level, you’ll never have quite the same opportunities, the same privileges, the experiences and the rites of passages everyone else takes for granted. (...) Like when you go shopping and people stare. Funny thing is, you get used to this one over time, it affects you far less than it does your friends. They hate it and stare back or make comments – “why are people so rude, you’re not a circus animal?”. You feel like saying “actually, I am” but it wouldn’t help, you just want to shop." [1] http://www.ted.com/talks/aimee_mullins_prosthetic_aesthetics http://www.ted.com/talks/aimee_mullins_prosthetic_aesthetics [2] https://disabilityhorizons.com/2015/09/the-truth-about-being-disabled-or-how-it-feels-to-be-an-outsider/ https://disabilityhorizons.com/2015/09/the-truth-about-being...
- avar 7y ago
  I'm not bound to a wheelchair, so maybe I'm full of it, but I'd think the feeling of not belonging among paraplegics has to do with not being able to fully partake in society. Go to a party and your default is to make eye contact with people's crotches and them literally looking down on you (dumb as it is, this is important to us social primates), a simple set of stairs being an insurmountable obstacle, being excluded from "able-bodied" activities etc. As compared with being in a centaur suit, now you're a superhero. "Hey Bob, you can lift half a ton, can you help me with this?". Making good fun of your out of shape "able-bodied" buddies on a hike as you carry all their backpacks on your back etc. Of course much of that could also be said about a bipedal suit, but those are presumably harder to develop, and need to be more compact, so power storage is more of an issue, and can't as naturally transition to wheeled travel without all the issues with a Segway. It would be unfortunate to delay deployment of these systems because of some perceived prejudice against four or eight-legged systems. People at the supermarket already wear what could be called "unnatural" partial exoskeletons today. They're just called wheelchairs or mobility scooters, I don't see how a working legged contraption that doesn't pass for vanilla human when clothed would make much of a difference.
dougmwne 7y ago
From the article, this man has already used his implant to control his wheelchair, which already has vastly more public infrastructure to support it than a centaur.

by avar 7y ago

Roritharr 7y ago

I imagine something on the basis of Boston Dynamics Big Dog would also be a perfect fit, while culturally extremely jarring to watch.

rorykoehler 7y ago

The world is designed for humans so it's probably easier to adapt to the environment rather than the other way around.

Drakim 7y ago
This is also why human-shaped robots will be a lot more useful than centaur-shaped robot. Your human-shaped robot can carry a package and use a normal sized elevator to deliver it to the top floor. It can drive your old school gas car. It can fit wherever humans can fit.
- avar 7y ago
  A man in a centaur suit still has hands so they can carry a package, and if a room has something the size of a very small table in it someone trailing a second set of legs could get there too. Even something the size of a horse could get into most human infrastructure, if most horses weren't so petrified of everything. The man in the article has the equivalent of a big hiking backpack on his back, he couldn't drive most cars either without leaning the seat all the way back. To turn that into a centaur just means angling the same backpack 90 degrees with another set of legs.

TuringTest 7y ago

Standing on two feet gives an impression of a self-supporting body. Having a support at the back would give the impression that the body is transported by a forklift. It's irrational, but we know how the irrational deeply affects human relations. Think how accepted are those "telepresence robots" that go around campuses looking like a TV set hooked up to a vacuum cleaner (hint: they're creepy). You don't want to make the same impression.

pjc50 7y ago

If it's under neural control, it's going to be much easier for a human to learn to walk again on two legs than it is on four.

probably_wrong 7y ago

My guess is that it's not only about "external" improvement but also "internal". Externally, your centaur design is more stable and probably easier to design. It would also allow you to do some (highly specific) tasks that a boring, two-legged human could not do. Like Aimee Mullins said in her TED talk[1], this would make you not so much "disabled", but rather "super-abled". Internally, however, you also want those using the exoskeleton to regain their feeling of belonging. That is, you don't want the to "just" walk - you also want them to walk exactly like everybody else. To quote from this book [2], "You don’t always feel inferior, mostly just out of place. Sometimes though, you feel a pang in your chest, a bit like a short, sharp stab. You know what it is instantly… It's there to remind you – you’ll never be quite the same, never on the same level, you’ll never have quite the same opportunities, the same privileges, the experiences and the rites of passages everyone else takes for granted. (...) Like when you go shopping and people stare. Funny thing is, you get used to this one over time, it affects you far less than it does your friends. They hate it and stare back or make comments – “why are people so rude, you’re not a circus animal?”. You feel like saying “actually, I am” but it wouldn’t help, you just want to shop." [1] http://www.ted.com/talks/aimee_mullins_prosthetic_aesthetics http://www.ted.com/talks/aimee_mullins_prosthetic_aesthetics [2] https://disabilityhorizons.com/2015/09/the-truth-about-being-disabled-or-how-it-feels-to-be-an-outsider/ https://disabilityhorizons.com/2015/09/the-truth-about-being...

avar 7y ago
I'm not bound to a wheelchair, so maybe I'm full of it, but I'd think the feeling of not belonging among paraplegics has to do with not being able to fully partake in society. Go to a party and your default is to make eye contact with people's crotches and them literally looking down on you (dumb as it is, this is important to us social primates), a simple set of stairs being an insurmountable obstacle, being excluded from "able-bodied" activities etc. As compared with being in a centaur suit, now you're a superhero. "Hey Bob, you can lift half a ton, can you help me with this?". Making good fun of your out of shape "able-bodied" buddies on a hike as you carry all their backpacks on your back etc. Of course much of that could also be said about a bipedal suit, but those are presumably harder to develop, and need to be more compact, so power storage is more of an issue, and can't as naturally transition to wheeled travel without all the issues with a Segway. It would be unfortunate to delay deployment of these systems because of some perceived prejudice against four or eight-legged systems. People at the supermarket already wear what could be called "unnatural" partial exoskeletons today. They're just called wheelchairs or mobility scooters, I don't see how a working legged contraption that doesn't pass for vanilla human when clothed would make much of a difference.

dougmwne 7y ago

From the article, this man has already used his implant to control his wheelchair, which already has vastly more public infrastructure to support it than a centaur.